|
Most people that use software or drive a car couldn't care less how either works under the hood. Most people also drive over bridges and live in homes without thinking about the engineering that went into them too.
People simply want these things to be pleasing to the eye and to fit a purpose in their life. Only when these things fail to be pleasing to the eye or fail in their designated purpose do they care; and that caring is merely to point the finger of blame at those that built it.
That is the human condition, acknowledge it, accept it, and move on.
|
|
|
|
|
Monster Maker wrote: I think they would prefer learning how to code(so that they can solve their problems by themselves and not waiting for a s/w or an app that will solve it for them) than having installed computer on their face(google glasses)
I'm curious what planet you live on, is the sky blue like ours? 
Back in '78, it was one of the West Coast Computer Faires held in San Jose, CA where I attended a session that a panel of self professed "experts" declared that the COBOL program was soon to be extinct since going forward, all school children would be learning how to program.
This old gentleman, (well, old to me, as was a wee sprout) stood up and said they were wrong. He said look around, everyone in this room knows how to read and write. How many are going to write novels?
I wish I had a video of that moment. I thought he had nailed it, while the panel avoided looking at him and no doubt hoped security would remove the old fool.
To paraphrase a line from Dr. Strangelove, "Programming is too important to be left to users. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought."
Psychosis at 10
Film at 11
Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: I'm curious what planet you live on, is the sky blue like ours?
Are you a computer faculty somewhere? 
You resemble mine..
Quote: Back in '78
If you are comparing 2013 with 1978, then let me tell you only the sky is blue since then.
I am sure respected Dr. Strangelove had no facebook account,nor iphone and was unknown what wonders would be done by visual studio before making that comment.
Things have changed from then sir.
Learning cobol is far different from learning javascript(you must be knowing)
and working on windows-8 is different from mainframe.
8 year infants today know how to configure iphone,
where they would find cheats of their games,google can answer them anything.
and 1000's of other services they would use in future.
Don't you think they deserve to know some more knowledge(not only coding) about OS, so that they can implement their own idea in between something that has become so important part of their lives.
As a student we don't like to just sit and see things happening. We got to know some working behind the scenes so that we can manipulate or customize it in our way for our personal use.
And don't go back in 78 , think about next 78(2078)
World is short of ideas!
|
|
|
|
|
Monster Maker wrote: Are you a computer faculty somewhere?
You resemble mine..
Aw, the inexperience, naivety, and idealism of youth...it is really a good thing to have, but you will start to see patterns as you get older. Patterns like, everyone will soon be a programmer, programming is a dying profession, computers will be programming themselves soon, and my favorite, everything worthwhile has already been programmed.
Monster Maker wrote: I am sure respected Dr. Strangelove had no facebook account,nor iphone and was unknown what wonders would be done by visual studio before making that comment.
Dr. Strangelove did not make that comment I paraphrased, General Jack D. Ripper did. But you'd know that if you had ever seen the movie.
Monster Maker wrote: Things have changed from then sir.
Learning cobol is far different from learning javascript(you must be knowing)
and working on windows-8 is different from mainframe.
Not really. It is still stringing commands for a non thinking entity to follow without question. The syntax is different, but in 20 years or so, someone will tell you the same about JavaScript and whatever is the fad language of the time. Oh, please tell me you're not one of those idiots who pop up every once in a while and say that if it were in your power, you'd eliminate Assembly programming.
Monster Maker wrote: 8 year infants today know how to configure iphone,
Configuring is not programming. My grandchildren have been using computers since they were 2 1/2 (although they don't get the hang of mouse clicking until they were 3 1/2), but none of them had the inclination to become programmers. I still hold out hope for the great grandchildren, but they are not old enough to use computers yet. My children ignored my daily use of computers until they finally saw the light of employment, but they are not programmers, just users. Using a spreadsheet is not programming, even though it does require some rigor in thought. VisiCalc was one of the programs that were cited to me as justification that programmers will soon be obsolete. That, and CASE programming. You don't hear anything about CASE anymore, that was where you were to tell the computer in general terms what you wanted done and then it would write the program for you. Didn't really work out except for extremely limited circumstances.
Monster Maker wrote: And don't go back in 78 , think about next 78(2078)
See my tagline about this. Reality is for those who cannot handle science fiction, which I've read all my life. My first books were Collier's Man in Space Golden Books before I could read. When I learned to program in high school, we only had accesss to computers during the school year. Summer vacation had us all like junkies trying to get our computer fix. That contributed to my decision to buy an HP-65 programmable calculator, that was before the Altair 8800 was announced. I worked at one of earliest computer stores and had to endure people telling me daily that there was no rational reason for anyone to have a personal computer. Now you are an oddball if you don't have at least one programmable device.
But this is where you are going to make your money...the vast majority of people don't want to program. (See my paraphrased quote) This is right up there with car owners not wanting to be mechanics, they just want to be able to use their devices, they don't want to know how they work. Someone will have to write the programs for them, drag and drop programming is not going to fill the bill for the future's requirements. I once had an accountant ask me why it was going to take any time to write the program he wanted. Hadn't everything been done? Considering that accounting has been with us since the dawn of writing, I could see where he was coming from. But I countered with the fact that programming is barely 50 years old (at that time). And I asked, "Who programmed cellphones before they existed?"
Programming is still evolving, but it is never going to be finished. We've been building bridges for millennia, but we still build ones that collapse. Our language is not cast in concrete, don't tell me you haven't added new words to your vocabulary in you lifetime (and I'm not talking about ones already in the dictionary, but have been added recently). Programming and user interfaces are going to change, you just think the latest is the greatest. Give it a few years, you'll change your mind.
Programming is an exciting field...we create from absolute nothingness. Artists and writers can make the same claim, but our creations actually do something.
But it's not for everyone. I don't mean that in an elitist way, programming is not for everyone in the same way that microbiology is not for everyone, or farming or (fill in the blank). Be thankful that you have that inclination, it will set you apart from the masses that can't see the future you have to look into every day when you write your programs.
Psychosis at 10
Film at 11
Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
modified 2-Apr-13 9:54am.
|
|
|
|
|
A very powerful message.
The trouble is that some computer skills are so basic, they are akin to reading and writing, not akin to becoming a novelist.
Learning to communicate with a computer is very akin to learning to communicate by, say, writing a letter.
Although people lived their lives without being able to read and write, I think you'd agree that because reading and writing were made part of a basic education, quality of life has had an enormous potential to improve.
Making informed decisions is usually preferable to leaving things to chance.
The skill of reading brought the knowledge of books to the masses. The skill of communicating with a computer has the potential to allow the masses to discover information, evaluate data, perform their duties with more efficiency than ever before.
Also, I find it interesting that a discussion of user interfaces have led to a discussion of whether or not people should know how to code. It would seem that non-computer users cannot differentiate the two.
Scary. I wonder too, whether people would question their heart surgeon if he/she tried to use a butter knife. Maybe not. I've learned not to implicitly trust user interfaces. Probably because they don't pay malpractice insurance.
|
|
|
|
|
schmidja wrote: Although people lived their lives without being able to read and write, I think you'd agree that because reading and writing were made part of a basic education, quality of life has had an enormous potential to improve.
No doubt, but most people barely write shopping lists.
schmidja wrote: The skill of reading brought the knowledge of books to the masses. The skill of communicating with a computer has the potential to allow the masses to discover information, evaluate data, perform their duties with more efficiency than ever before.
I have a low opinion of those people, just try reading comments on news stories or even YouTube. The potential is there, most choose not to use it for good. I must say I've become very cynical and now regard education as a waste for many. They are taught facts, but not how to use them. Hopefully we will grow past that. They used to think television was going to bring education to the masses instead of "reality" shows.
schmidja wrote: Also, I find it interesting that a discussion of user interfaces have led to a discussion of whether or not people should know how to code. It would seem that non-computer users cannot differentiate the two.
I agree with that.
I just wish more people were learning to really program. The last ad my company placed looking for programmers had no respondents. Granted my boss was looking for MS Access programmers, but I would have thought there would have been someone willing to give it a go.
P.S. You might enjoy reading my response to Monster Maker's response, I won't come off as such a downer as I seem to have here.
Psychosis at 10
Film at 11
Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
|
|
|
|
|
jschell wrote: Second, some functionality, such as typing are unlikely to be replaced.
Optimist ...
|
|
|
|
|
It should be the LNOB interface...Leave No One Behind UI!
|
|
|
|
|
hah..that's the good one.
I am surely going to add that "LNOB" interface in my next android app!! :P
You do it in your code..
|
|
|
|
|
Or the LCD UI, lowest common denominator ui.
When I look at the metro ui, I kind of start wondering what happend to the guy who once designed programmers workbench ...
|
|
|
|
|
Espen Harlinn wrote: When I look at the metro ui, I kind of start wondering what happend to the guy who once designed programmers workbench ...
Maybe Windows 9 will be a command line OS, since we seem to be digressing? We can call it WIDIOT?
|
|
|
|
|
heheh... one thing i can tell about you is that
you are in habit of seeing things with different angles,
and always try new things.
That's simply gr8 about you.
Keep doing the same!!
But for now help me debating others. :PP
World is short of ideas!
|
|
|
|
|
Monster Maker wrote: Can't we make that thing specific to a type of person
who is using it?
Do you mean something that can be adapted to people with various disabilities?
|
|
|
|
|
Yep sir,
people with disabilities, but not those what you meant.
Like if don't like math, i lack that part(its a type of disability for me).
On the other hand i like music, so in my UI things related to maths should be hidden or converted
to music without changing its actual meaning. In short for a musician microsoft windows should be
made totaly different than it should be for a mathematician.
If google can provide us the ad's depending on the searches that we make or following our emails that we get,then it can surely manage to give that much flexible UI with little more effort.
World is short of ideas!
|
|
|
|
|
The problem with changing interfaces significantly depending on the user is one of support.
User : "When I wave my hands anti-clockwise and say "Noteus padius" my email program starts instead of Notepad
Support: "Have you tried re-starting the computer?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
Monster Maker wrote: World is short of ideas!
Nope, I think about a third of humanity is mentally rigged to cough up new ideas, which the other two thirds do their best to shoot them down ...
Monster Maker wrote: my UI things related to maths should be hidden or converted
to music without changing its actual meaning
That would be an achievement - but you would still have to understand the mathematics ... music would then just be another notation ...
|
|
|
|
|
Quote: Nope, I think about a third of humanity is mentally rigged to cough up new ideas, which the other two thirds do their best to shoot them down ...
I think you are talking about innovation. World is short of ideas and that's the only reason people steal it. But innovations are overflowing as 1 idea can be associated with a million innovations.
Secondly,
i never want that actually(that would be done in 100 years or so matching all probabilities),
what i want to convey is that people like to understand and do thing their own way.
So the UI should be made their way(or make a step towards that goal), then only the time understanding
windows would be utilized in implementing the ideas innovations.
I miss bitten apple! :'(
|
|
|
|
|
Monster Maker wrote: World is short of ideas and that's the only reason people steal it.
Nope. Plenty of ideas. All of them based on existing idioms and many duplicated (unintentionally).
But successfully taking an idea to produce something that other people will use is a far, far different thing.
|
|
|
|
|
Making interfaces specific could be a real problem. Imagine if you did the same thing for cars? I might want to drive using my left hand on a joystick, someone else steers with their knees etc. We cold no longer drive one another's cars!
Of course, you could argue that making the drive interface entirely software driven would help with that - but then I would need to be able to change preferences instantly and have my personal interface downloaded before I could drive your car.
And so it would be with any device with an interface. Suddenly I can't use the microwave without logging on first!
|
|
|
|
|
_Maxxx_ wrote: Suddenly I can't use the microwave without logging on first!
Or log on without using the microwave ...
|
|
|
|
|
Sir,
you can drive cars only in one boring way, everyday. With little or small manipulations.
But when it comes on coding, sky is the limit.
You can program to the same output, with different logic everyday.
And logic is about your idea of doing things.
So why not collect that idea from every field.
World is short of ideas
|
|
|
|
|
Monster Maker wrote: But when it comes on coding, sky is the limit.
You can program to the same output, with different logic everyday.
And logic is about your idea of doing things.
So why not collect that idea from every field.
If you are suggesting that there is some way to create a UI that allows people to program new concepts - it is very unlikely to happen.
People have been attempting to do that for at least 30 years. And there has been almost no success. If it was possible then the process would already exist and people would be improving on it. Instead every attempt it heralded as the next best thing but in even limited usage all start to exhibit severe limits.
|
|
|
|
|
_Maxxx_ wrote: We cold no longer drive one another's cars
Dammed right, bugger off that is MY computer and if you lay your grubby mits on it I'll glue them to the wall.
We already have customisation (in windows anyway) to personal taste!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
|
|
|
|
|
Exactly, there's my point,we do have customization.
But people actually customizing it are really less. Only those who are actually committed.
I don't think a high school child will customize is his computer before using paint.
He would prefer social network(where he has stuffs which he understands much better).
World is short of ideas!
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
