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David Kentley wrote: he wasn't an inventor
Yet his name is on 300+ US patents... Me thinks he was quite a bit more "hands on" than many think - certainly more "hands on" than most other CEO's.
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Someone's name on a patent application only means... their name is on the application. It has nothing to do with whatever contributions they may or may not have made to the development of the idea.
Software Zen: delete this;
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True, but it also doesn't mean that they absolutely had nothing to do with the idea or design - which is what you've apparently already decided.
Read a bit about Jobs (particularly the last 10-15 years) and you'll find out that he was intimately involved in many aspects of design and production.
You can not like Jobs or Apple for any number of reasons but don't lie to yourself to justify it.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: True, but it also doesn't mean that they absolutely had nothing to do with the idea or design - which is what you've apparently already decided.
Not at all. I was making a general statement based on my personal experience. I have a sour view of corporate patent handling. Where I work, certain disciplines are eligible for rewards when patents are granted. Other disciplines (software, for example) are not, even though the company vigorously pursues patents in those disciplines. Patent applications here routinely include the names of managers in the hierarchy above the inventor, even though those managers haven't done any significant technical work in years. To my mind 'herding cats' doesn't count.
Mike Mullikin wrote: You can not like Jobs or Apple for any number of reasons but don't lie to
yourself to justify it.
The only thing I dislike about Apple is the way they handle developers and the App Store. Based on my read of their conditions, and some friends' experiences with submitting apps, I won't ever be developing software for an Apple product.
Regarding Jobs, I don't think I could have worked for the man. I believe I produce high-quality work at a decent pace. I expect to be treated with respect. Jobs had a reputation for wearing his perfectionism on his sleeve, and could be demanding and abrasive. I'm old enough I don't care to deal with that sort of excessive crap.
BTW, between my daughter and myself, we own four iPods. We both use iTunes to manage our music libraries. I'm neither a fan nor an opponent of Apple.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote: I was making a general statement based on my personal experience. I have a sour view of corporate patent handling. Where I work, certain disciplines are eligible for rewards when patents are granted. Other disciplines (software, for example) are not, even though the company vigorously pursues patents in those disciplines. Patent applications here routinely include the names of managers in the hierarchy above the inventor, even though those managers haven't done any significant technical work in years.
The company I work for doesn't work that way. The only names on the patent applications are the ones who came up with the idea. Rarely is that a pure manager. I've had my name on a few applications myself...
Gary R. Wheeler wrote: Regarding Jobs, I don't think I could have worked for the man. I believe I produce high-quality work at a decent pace. I expect to be treated with respect. Jobs had a reputation for wearing his perfectionism on his sleeve, and could be demanding and abrasive.
Agreed, but I have enormous respect for his pursuit of perfection and his work ethic. If I had a billion dollars you'd never get me off of the beach and into an office again. Ever.
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Mike Mullikin wrote: The company I work for doesn't work that way
I like my job, I get along well with my coworkers, benefits are good and I'm paid fairly well.
But.
I work for a hardware manufacturing company. Engineering management is made up entirely of (former) hardware engineers. There is a very distinct caste system: mechanical engineers, analog electrical, digital electrical, and at the bottom, software. Software development is treated like the demented cousin you keep locked in the attic because you can't trust him not to masturbate in public.
During one of our periodic engineering management shuffles, the guy two steps up from me and a coworker asked the two of us to write a white paper describing the "software engineering methodology" our group used for our products. The comments that got us in to trouble went something like this: "Scheduling software development is subject to the same problems as scheduling other engineering efforts. Some problems require sheer invention to solve, invention which doesn't grant a simple timetable."
We got the white paper back from the manager with those comments circled in red, and the instructions "Remove this comment; software development isn't an inventive process." That, as they say, was that. I will never participate in a patent application while this culture is maintained.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: when Bill Gates dies, there will be parties in the street.
Bill Gates, no, but steve Ballmer, Hell yes!!! I will even throw a chair in his honor!
Watched code never compiles.
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+1
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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Is the Bill Gates who invested $150m in non-voting Apple stock in 1997, keeping the company afloat!
If it weren't for Bill, Jobs would have been Jobless
====================================
Transvestites - Roberts in Disguise!
====================================
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I disagree.
When Gates dies the MS zealots and the mass media will be just as sappy as the Apple fanboys are now.
And the same jealous ignorant people here at CP that are "dissing" Jobs will be "dissing" Gates. Some people are just haters.
And to the OP: You didn't know Jobs so how are you so sure he wasn't instrumental in development?
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I'm in agreement with you, Jörgen. His passing makes me neither sad nor happy, more so just indifferent. If anything, I feel sorry for his family and friends as they have lost someone close to them. That lost is far more important, in my view.
In one of the Daily News links to an article[^], I found this gem of a post.
BTW interesting comparison between Buddhist Mandala’s and the iPhone. After a short time you are supposed throw away/destroy both of them and buy/make a new ones.
It mirror's one of my concerns about Apple products and one of the reasons for my shunning of them. To me the products represent the ultimate in mass consumerism. 
Chris Meech
I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar]
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: I don't know him. Does that make me an a**hole?
No, the people who are faking grief because one of the guys behind the iPod they bought 4 years ago died are the a**holes. It's sad when anybody dies, but these people who act like they are personally effected by it when they never met him or had anything to do with him really grind my gears.
Stop trying to make it about you! It cheapens the genuine grief of those who actually where close to him and have reason to cry.
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I just saw some nonsense on the front page about how he "revolutionised IT". Total bullcrap. Before the iPhone, Apple was in the toilet. At best, Apple made hobbyist computers, and were a haven for those who hated Microsoft.
Here's my 5.
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The cult cannot be destroyed. It lives on through the legion of cyber-zombies, slowing down pedestrian traffic as they try to play Angry Birds on their iPhone while walking down the sidewalk...
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We'll see, I think you're wrong, to me it seems that very much of the cult was built around the person. When Jobs was kicked out of Apple in the nineties, Apple was dropping like a stone, and when he came back it went up again.
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I walked tired through the city this morning and saw a lot of candles and flowers at one spot, wondering what it was about, some accident or whatever. Then I looked up and saw that I was in front of the Apple store. I just don't get it, nobody of those people knew Jobs personally. I was sad last week when a distant friend of mine died, even though I didn't like him too much, but being sad about some person I never met in all my live? No. :shrug:
"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by." (DNA)
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Jörgen Andersson wrote: Does that make me an a**hole?
Not by itself. 
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
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Ok, that certainly gets my five! 
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Did you hear those chimes? Do you know what it means?
It's Friday, past midday in London and we're in official wind-down-to-the-weekend mode. So munch a BACON samich and enjoy a strong dose of Gin.
The weekends just around the corner!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H
OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre
I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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woo hoo!
------------------------------------
I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
CCC Link[ ^]
Trolls[ ^]
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It is starting time here. So nine more hours. 
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Indeed. Pass the port, old bean. 
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Port? #hic# What port?
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H
OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre
I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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That's how I remember. Apart from the wart, that is.
Henry Minute
Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain
Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?"
“I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus!
When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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