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Let me put it this way. The bosses I had wouldn't know what lube is if it were them assuming the position.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh!
Current activities:
Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Project: Hospital Automation, final stage
Learning: Image analysis, LINQ
Now and forever, defiant to the end.
What is Multiple Sclerosis[ ^]?
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Not where I was. It was more like, "you'll fix this sh*t and like it!"
ROFLOL
This is the best thread ever...
I was only smiling through the posts until I hit this one... nice.
Personally, I like seeing other peoples work. There are plenty of smarter people than me out there and I like to see all the different perspectives.
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Cheers 
Christopher06 wrote: Personally, I like seeing other peoples work.
Me too, I get inspired.
Christopher06 wrote: There are plenty of smarter people than me out there and I like to see all the different perspectives.
I'll argue that there are people who thought things up before I did or are more experienced. For now.  In all seriousness though, you are 100% right.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh!
Current activities:
Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Project: Hospital Automation, final stage
Learning: Image analysis, LINQ
Now and forever, defiant to the end.
What is Multiple Sclerosis[ ^]?
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_Damian S_ wrote: As professional developers, I would assume most of us have done this many times over.
Not a chance - first thing I do is drop in the DAL, utilities and warm up my classbuilder. The only times I have done this is when I changed from VB6 to dotnet and then again when I moved to C#. It took me a couple of months to convert all the utilitiy classes, it was my learning curve.
Any professional who does not have a suite of helper classes and tools is not a serious developer.
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Mycroft Holmes wrote: Any professional who does not have a suite of helper classes and tools is not a serious developer.
Agreed.
I guess it's a matter of semantics for the other bit. I was looking at it as two separate issues -
1. Who has designed and written software from scratch, ie: not maintenance coding
and
2. Whether you hand code everything or use your suite of tools...
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Agreed. I have helper classes galore ... and i have written several different project templates that help me instantiate things like flow, oledb, registration process and checking, speech and other things I often want to use as a baseline to my project. I haven't migrated to C# yet but I fear it is inevitable ... but only because Uncle Mikey will eventually pull the rug out from under us.
Peace.
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_Damian S_ wrote: As professional developers, I would assume most of us have done this many times over.
I think it deserves a pole - I would assume most developers, even "professional", are working on projects defined by architects or teams, etc.
(I discard small utilities you had to write in a week's time)
So I would not take anything like this for granted.
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Hi,
Yes, I have done this at least two or three times.
The last time was five/six years ago. I was asked to build an enterprise POS system using .Net 2.0, VS 2005 and Sql Express 2005 which were still in beta. My only spec was a two page list of one-line comments that were must have features.
It is now a shipping product, and very cool... but I am still working on it. I probably could be for the rest of my life 
I agree it feels good when you get the momentum going. Of course, five or six years later you can't help but feel if you started again today you'd do everything differently, which is depressing. Less depressing that actually starting again though.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote: Whats the biggest program you have ever had to build completely from scratch with only your own ideas and abilities?
Interacx
and don't bother trying the website - I'm still recovering from a hard disk crash on the web server. But it is motivating me to write an Interacx web server (with Telerik controls). I was getting rather tired, annoyed, frustrated, etc., with DNN and similar products. I don't think I can actually do worse, and I can probably actually do better.
Marc
Will work for food.
Interacx
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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Marc Clifton wrote: probably actually
Is that like being generally specific? hehe...
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_Damian S_ wrote: Is that like being generally specific? hehe...
It's my Charlie Brown aspect coming out when I'm tired. Or it's a hangover from my mom, who always, to this day, says "really actually".
Marc
Will work for food.
Interacx
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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Next time she says really actually, respond with "yeah, it's approximately precise".
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Quite a few times now.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: Whats the biggest program you have ever had to build completely from scratch with only your own ideas and abilities?
Probably an image viewer which uses web services to request images from a central server, has DICOM functionality, integrates with the systems of a telemedicine company and provides all the tools for diagnostic viewing of radiographs. At least, with all the threading I did, it's the most complex thing I have done.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote: Modularity and reusability of classes and other code parts.
IMO this is overrated. Write something you intend to reuse, sure, but don't sweat on making every tiny thing reusable. HAving said that, good design lends to reuse, even if it's never going to happen.
Christian Graus
Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Having been a professional programmer for almost 30 years, I've done this more times than I can remember.
The biggest project I've ever done this for is the current application family I'm working on. It's a body of code that consists of three products with a couple branches of each, and consists of around 500,000 lines of code developed over the last 8 years.
It's interesting that you listed 'user interface' last. My application is the user interface for our system. The fundamental UI design came first, architecture second, and classes/code/details last.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Gary Wheeler wrote: The fundamental UI design came first, architecture second, and classes/code/details last.
 So many folks forget that their apps are meant ot be used by humans.
Jon
'When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.' ~ Montesquieu
Soap Box 1.0: the first, the original, reborn troll-less
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Oakman wrote: used by humans
Well, the operators of our equipment do indeed classify as homo sapiens, so...
Truthfully, UI design was important for us, since it is a touch-screen UI for a piece of equipment. I spent a lot of time designing the interaction and building touch-friendly widgets. So many of the built-in Windows controls simply don't work as-is in this arena because they present targets that are too small for selection or manipulation.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Done this many times. Starting is easy -- start with what you know and flesh out the idea.
Perhaps its my old-school CS training that makes this step easy. I was taught to start projects from scratch not with the code editor, but with the document editor. I usually start with the code editor as soon as I send the initial draft of the design docs out for review.
patbob
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I'm using Tortoise and subversion with vs2008. I do all the commits etc from windows explorer, nothing in visual studio.
I've removed a release folder from subversion as I had accidentally added it a long time ago. Committed no problem, but every time I rebuild that project in vs2008 the .svn folder magically reappears and it shows tortoise icons beside the files as uncommitted but when I try a commit it says there's nothing to commit.
I've searched and searched and followed all different methods of removing it etc but it keeps popping back after a build.
-----------------------
Solution: The culprit was visual studio, it was a web deployment project and visual studio was copying the .svn folders from the source project to the deployment release folder (Duh on my part). Solution was to right click on the deployment project and edit project file, added the following right at the bottom before the closing /project tag:
<ItemGroup><br />
<ExcludeFromBuild Include="$(SourceWebPhysicalPath)\.svn\**\*.*;$(SourceWebPhysicalPath)\**\.svn\**\*.*" /> <br />
</ItemGroup><br />
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
modified on Wednesday, October 7, 2009 1:37 PM
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Subversion sucks.
Christian Graus
Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Why Chris, you say it with so much love 
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh!
Current activities:
Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Project: Hospital Automation, final stage
Learning: Image analysis, LINQ
Now and forever, defiant to the end.
What is Multiple Sclerosis[ ^]?
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Oh, I LOVE telling people how much SVN sucks.
Christian Graus
Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Most all software sucks. It's usually about which software sucks least. Do you have a preference over subversion?
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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Pretty much anything, including typing my code as word documents, and using word change tracking.
I love VSTS, however, and I am also fond of Source Anywhere, which is what I've used for some time. It doesn't do anything fancy beyond giving me source control where-ever I am in the world, but it just works. SVN failed that test for me, and for the OP apparently.
Christian Graus
Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote: including typing my code as word documents, and using word change tracking.
Now that's hardcore source control!!
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And then when Word corrupts your doc......
(come see me)
Candy: Don't mess with the prin-cess.
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