|
Or you could do it in English (UK) using a Do Whilst loop... 
|
|
|
|
|
LOL 
If I knew then what I know today, then I'd know the same now as I did then - then what would be the point?
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
|
|
|
|
|
SELECT
C1
FROM
(
SELECT 1 AS C1
UNION ALL
SELECT 5
UNION ALL
SELECT 7
UNION ALL
SELECT 2
) AS InnerSelect
ORDER BY
C1 ASC
|
|
|
|
|
|
Hey - maybe next time I recruit I could ask them to write a programming article - then I can put it on CP as my own work and take the glory...
If I knew then what I know today, then I'd know the same now as I did then - then what would be the point?
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
|
|
|
|
|
Clearly you should have just taken the programming task and immediately headed to CP, and in the Lounge (or another completely inappropriate forum) posted a message like this:
HELPZ!! NEED CODEZ URGENTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
|
|
|
|
|
Don't think I wasn't tempted! I was just worried that the client(who is obviously a decent chap) might frequent, and may put 2 & 2 together!
If I knew then what I know today, then I'd know the same now as I did then - then what would be the point?
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
|
|
|
|
|
We have the agency give dev's a test that we wrote before we'll interview them. Cuts the number of people we need to interview by about 60%
|
|
|
|
|
What sort of test is that - and can you be sure hat you are cutting out the 60% that would be crap at the job and not 60% ho would be good at it but just hate having to do stupid tests just to get an interview?
(I wouldn't mind so much if it was the employer insisting on the test but this is from the agency, for the agency)
If I knew then what I know today, then I'd know the same now as I did then - then what would be the point?
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
|
|
|
|
|
Father Christmas wrote: What sort of test is that - and can you be sure hat you are cutting out the 60% that would be crap at the job and not 60% ho would be good at it but just hate having to do stupid tests just to get an interview?
If they come to the interview with the idea that they're too good to sit a test then they can just bugger off
Father Christmas wrote: (I wouldn't mind so much if it was the employer insisting on the test but this is from the agency, for the agency)
Yep, different kettle of fish
|
|
|
|
|
I used to test applicants with a 10 or 15 question multiple choice before the interview began. The test was designed in such a way that a basic knowledge would get you 25%, competent was 50% and above, and if you got all correct you'd have to be pretty special. It had questions as simple as 'what is the correct way to declare an array' and ones like 'which of the following four table relationships best describes a many-to-many relationship'.
After the test was complete you could see the level of confidence with people. If they didn't score that well but were confident it was just because the test didn't match their backgrounds, that was OK. If the didn't score well and had no idea why, then you knew that they were chancing it. I had experienced developers complete the test professionally and calmly, and I think they were happy that the person interviewing them actually appeared to have a clue, rather than some jockey from HR. Because if you get interviewed by a person with no clue, chances are when you start work, you'll be surrounded by incompetent people who all easily slipped past the interviewer.
You would be floored to know how many people get past recruiters with absolutely no programming idea at all. Generally it's people trying to switch languages and pick up experience on the job, or perhaps helpdesk people trying to move themselves up the food chain. I once asked a guy what he liked most about vb.net (back when it was new) over vb6 and he answered that the 'todo list' at the bottom was pretty neat. I surmised he had opened the IDE once and looked at it, and this was the sum total of his vb.net experience.
I think interview tests are more important than meangingless questions like 'where do you see yoruself in five years' (answer: not working for you, hopefullly) and 'what's your biggest fault?' (answer: I haven't yet managed to find a way to avoid going to interviews)
|
|
|
|
|
brucerchapman wrote: You would be floored to know how many people get past recruiters with absolutely no programming idea at all. Generally it's people trying to switch languages and pick up experience on the job, or perhaps helpdesk people trying to move themselves up the food chain
true - but here's what happened to me once...
Applied for job as Proj Mgr where they programmed in RPG III - no coding experience expected - and I had an AS/400 background.
They didn't offer me that job (long story) but I got the job as developer - in RPG a language I had never seen.
within a threemonth I was poached by an RPG software house because I had better skills than their own developers.
If they'd given me a coding test I would have fallen at teh first questino (unless it was 'how do you spell RPG?')
Yet I was their best developer in that timescale.
So the moral is - Oh, I don't know - treat people lile people. Show some trust -0 if they lie to you then kill them off.
If I knew then what I know today, then I'd know the same now as I did then - then what would be the point?
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
|
|
|
|
|
Trouble is, you are probably not getting the best candidates put forward, as a lot of people who are experienced developers simply won't tolerate this kind of behaviour...
--------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
|
|
|
|
|
_Damian S_ wrote: Trouble is, you are probably not getting the best candidates put forward, as a lot of people who are experienced developers simply won't tolerate this kind of behaviour...
Well tough titty. If they do get through and come in for an interview they get yet more tests. The fact we go to so much effort to ensure we get good people is a reason applicants should want to work here. If people come in with the idea that they are too good, too experienced to sit a test they wont get far.
|
|
|
|
|
Josh Gray wrote: Well tough titty. If they do get through and come in for an interview they get yet more tests.
Just quietly, if that's the attitude that shines through during the process, I'm fairly sure I know what my response would be!! 
--------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
|
|
|
|
|
_Damian S_ wrote: Just quietly, if that's the attitude that shines through during the process, I'm fairly sure I know what my response would be!! Wink
Interviews are about finding out if a person will be a good addition to the company. We want people to write code so we ask them to write some code as part of the interview process as well as a few other things. I really cant see the problem. We do this for grads and very experienced people
|
|
|
|
|
Does every new hire in company have to take a position specific test, or just developers ?
Did all the managers have to take management tests before they were hired ?
...cmk
The idea that I can be presented with a problem, set out to logically solve it with the tools at hand, and wind up with a program that could not be legally used because someone else followed the same logical steps some years ago and filed for a patent on it is horrifying.
- John Carmack
|
|
|
|
|
cmk wrote: Does every new hire in company have to take a position specific test, or just developers ?
One other department does similar testing.
|
|
|
|
|
Au contraire - the people that are good enough to get to work somewhere where they are treated like people and not cattle will avoid you like the plague and you will end up with a team of geeks who canpass tests but are probably crap when it comes to thinking outside the oblong
If I knew then what I know today, then I'd know the same now as I did then - then what would be the point?
.\\axxx
(That's an 'M')
|
|
|
|
|
Father Christmas wrote: Au contraire - the people that are good enough to get to work somewhere where they are treated like people and not cattle will avoid you like the plague and you will end up with a team of geeks who canpass tests but are probably crap when it comes to thinking outside the oblong
Thankfully the reality here is far from what you describe.
|
|
|
|
|
CP has a simple test it gives people applying. I don't see the big deal. Can you imagine some of the people who'd apply to CP ?
Christian Graus
Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
|
|
|
|
|
We go to most of the uni's in Australia and do presentations to the final year students telling them how absolutely fantastic we are. You can probably imagine how many applicants we get. We also run a competition at the uni careers day where they write some code and someone gets an iPhone or something similar
|
|
|
|
|
Josh Gray wrote: We go to most of the uni's in Australia
So you are looking for graduates and getting them to do the tests... that's vastly different to expecting experienced developers to undertake the same tests...
--------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
|
|
|
|
|
_Damian S_ wrote: So you are looking for graduates and getting them to do the tests... that's vastly different to expecting experienced developers to undertake the same tests...
Everyone gets the same tests. Their experience level is taken into account when considering the results though
|
|
|
|
|
I guess I just have a very dim view of this kind of thing when 2 hours into an interview answering all manner of technical questions about the project that I was (supposedly) going to be working on, I realised that I was simply providing free consulting for them and terminated the interview and promptly left...
--------------------------------------------------------
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit.
Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
