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Thanks for responding. Very interesting.
ElectronProgrammer wrote: It is possible that BigCo. wants to use the survey to ditch most candidates in an automated way, possibly using AI (it is the latest fashion after all), but I think that they are using the wrong approach.
This may indeed be the entire thing.
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As others have pointed out, most US companies will only verify employment. This was true even over 20 years ago, mostly out of fear of lawsuits for less than enthusiastic recommendations. As BigCo must know this, their request is more than ridiculous, and I would be tempted to point it out. Then again, I'm not the one looking for a job.
I suppose I'd be able to provide references from 3 managers, but all are retired. Unfortunately, the one I'd really want to use is no longer with us. But I think references from former peers should carry at least as much weight as those from former managers, especially for technical, non-managerial roles.
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I've been working in the same place for 13 years, and don't have contact info. for any of my previous managers. I'm sure that at least some of them have moved on to other companies. This seems like a way to reject applicants without actually rejecting them.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Nope. That's a pretty ridiculous request as others have pointed out. Just get a couple friends to fill them out anonymously. If BigCo says anything, just reply with "they wish to remain anonymous." Worst case scenario is they reject you which would have happened anyways with that ridiculous request very few people could actually comply with.
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Yes, and I did provide three managers for my current position.
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I was able to provide references for my current job easily since I had been laid off from my previous two jobs. That's the nature of my line of business, especially when it's tied so closely to the semiconductor industry. For my current job I changed industries completely and the likelihood of getting laid off from this company is exceedingly remote. It makes me wish I had joined them a long time ago.
As to your point : I've been professionally employed for almost forty years and their request is one I have never, ever seen before. I think it is abnormal and excessive.
"They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers! Can I get an amen?"
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Rick York wrote: As to your point : I've been professionally employed for almost forty years and their request is one I have never, ever seen before. I think it is abnormal and excessive
Thanks for chiming in on this.
I've worked in IT for 30 years & I've never seen that kind of thing either.
It's just a game that they are playing, I think.
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I could provide three positive manager references, although not recent ones.
Really, what are they going to do with references older than one or two years?
"Sander still had a lot to learn... Ten years ago."
And honestly, having three or more recent managers may be a huge red flag.
I'm currently my own manager and I'd not rate myself favorably as I'm always slacking away on CodeProject 
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As said by a few people (including me), this appears to be a way of rejecting someone without actually rejecting them. As no company these days will give any sort of comment about a former employee for fear of being sued, it is impossible to fulfill. I am certain that "BigCorp" knows this.
Sander Rossel wrote: I'm currently my own manager and I'd not rate myself favorably as I'm always slacking away on CodeProject
Fire the so-and-so! 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: As no company these days will give any sort of comment about a former employee for fear of being sued
Not where I come from.
People here don't sue a lot.
I'd call out BigCorp on their BS, simply tell them I can't give them what they ask for and even if I could, it would be worthless to them.
I've done so before and while people are usually a bit startled at first they're quite understanding after that.
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The first person to come to mind is my last boss who switched jobs about a year after I began, then I think of other people I know who are managers, but not mine. I guess it would largely depend on the content of the survey.
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I wouldn't work for any company that made such demands. (In fact I couldn't even apply, having been self-employed for 25 years!).
John D G
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I consult, so it's not fair. My clients are my managers.
So, ignoring that, like you, I'd have to go back to the 1990s
One of my managers passed away (but I have a letter of recommendation from him), I cringe at the thought of using it (it's from 1992, LOL)
OMG, I think my answer is:
I respect my prior managers enough not to ask them to do this, so NO. I will not provide 3 managers to take your survey.
The stated risks to the manager answering such a survey would be huge.
Something seems fishy!
More than likely, they have made a bunch of bad hires, and they are trying to fix it. (The same people who made the bad hires... trying to fix it... Einstein said something about this...)
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Kirk 10389821 wrote: I respect my prior managers enough not to ask them to do this, so NO. I will not provide 3 managers to take your survey.
Kirk 10389821 wrote: More than likely, they have made a bunch of bad hires, and they are trying to fix it.
Definitely true.
A part of sending the link to your reference includes a disclaimer that tells the person that they are "...only speaking as an individual & not representing any company and that the person asking for the reference will not hold you legally responsible."
it's just a terrible process.
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I think it's total bureaucratic BS and can't see anyone who isn't job hopping either by choice or bad luck having 3 prior managers recent enough to give good feedback. In my case excluding current coworkers it'd be a PM who left my current employer 4(?) years ago (assuming I can find her in linked in), the line manager/pm on a job I left over 5 years ago, and other people who were a manager of mine of some sort at that job 8-10 years ago.
Even if I were to be laid off from my current job - I'd still only have 3 non-technical managers available. If they wanted technical views of my skills it'd either need to be non-managers, or the 5 and 10 year ago people at old job. The 5 year ago one I'm at least certain would sing my praises, but my more marketable skills have grown considerably since then (went from mostly winforms to web/mobile dev at my new job).
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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Thanks for chiming in. That's the kind of reaction I expected a lot of people would have to this -- it's a ridiculous request for 98% (or higher) of job searchers.
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From "Azure Webinars:"Quote: Dear Customer,
For the last 25 years, Java has been the programming language of choice for developers. But today, the need to modernize Java applications has never been greater due to organizations coming under pressure to deliver faster time to market, reduce costs, and strengthen security. And this raises the question: how do you get Java to run well in the cloud?
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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how do you get Java to run well in the cloud?
You don't use Java 
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The only time I use Java is for Minecraft modding. Otherwise it’s C#.
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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I am developing in Java right now but never occur to me to run it the cloud. It would make many developers happy if it rained coffee instead of plain water 
And in the plus side we would be outdoor more often. I am told many times that I spend too much time in my cubicle 
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I think they did, actually.
I just so happen to know that Microsoft is pushing Azure to non-Microsoft developers.
Azure works great for all sorts of technologies, not just Microsoft's, but many developers do not know this.
Next to .NET Framework, .NET Core and .NET, it can run Java, PHP, Node, Python and Ruby (I did not know about Ruby until just now) out of the box.
And next to SQL Server they also have Cosmos DB (which supports multiple paradigms and has a MongoDB interface), MariaDB and MySQL, all managed a.k.a. cloud-native.
And of course there's support for various container technologies such a Kubernetes and Linux has become the default OS in Azure for many services.
With Azure DevOps you get tooling to quickly build and deploy said technologies as well as private repositories for not only NuGet, but also npm, Maven, Gradle, pip and twine.
So there really shouldn't be a reason Java developers shouldn't use Azure, yet now it's not considered an obvious choice.
What Brad and Satya want is that when those developers think "cloud" they think "Azure".
And that's why you got that email
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1) They don't read online lists ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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