Welcome to the Lounge

Super Lloyd31-Oct-21 14:59

31-Oct-21 14:59

Such wisdom and patience! Big Grin | :-D

A new .NET Serializer
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Taking over the world since 1371!

BryanFazekas2-Nov-21 2:07

BryanFazekas

2-Nov-21 2:07

First service pack or second? Laugh | :laugh:

I used to enjoy riding the bleeding edge, but it's been decades since I enjoyed being a beta (or alpha) tester!

honey the codewitch2-Nov-21 6:56

2-Nov-21 6:56

Usually the 1st. I'm not ultra paranoid. I used to avoid anything with version "4" in it coming from microsoft as to this day .NET 4.x is maybe the only version 4 of anything they've produced that was solid, but medication helps.

Real programmers use butterflies

OriginalGriff31-Oct-21 22:22

OriginalGriff

31-Oct-21 22:22

"Preview" means "Riddled with bugs we're working on"
"RCx" means "Riddled with bugs we're not going to fix."

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

Vaso Elias31-Oct-21 23:31

Vaso Elias

31-Oct-21 23:31

Yeah, there are 2 versions, RC 2022 and Preview 2022. You can see on October 19th, they started releasing RC which they recommend to use.

Visual Studio 2022 RC and Preview Release Notes | Microsoft Docs[^]

Rich Shealer1-Nov-21 4:24

Rich Shealer

1-Nov-21 4:24

The RC version is meant for production use and will continue to get the production releases going forward. These are fully supported by Microsoft.

The Preview version is not for production use and will get continue to get future preview releases of the product going forward. Preview releases may have experimental features that may not make it to the release version.

dandy721-Nov-21 4:16

dandy72

1-Nov-21 4:16

I've personally never bothered with VS betas.

The release versions are already buggy enough, why compound the problem? What feature is so compelling that you have to have it now?

Peter Adam1-Nov-21 5:43

Peter Adam

1-Nov-21 5:43

RC will be the final thing, the first public release supported version.

Preview will be always preview of what (maybe) will be in the next released version. For those whose code requires the bleeding edge features (remember the span datatype). So after the first release it will immediately include the next steps.

A glimpse of the future: The released versions of VS 2019[^]

Cp-Coder1-Nov-21 8:55

Cp-Coder

1-Nov-21 8:55

I cannot use this version (yet) because there is no Prism template pack for it yet. When I raised the issue on their blog site, Brian Lagunas himself responded that they will not create a Prism version for VS2022 while it is still a preview version - too many pitfalls. Lagunas is a wise man! Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

Member 91670571-Nov-21 21:38

Member 9167057

1-Nov-21 21:38

RC=release candiate
Releasing an RC, a software developer says "please take a loot at this. I'm fairly confident for this to be a good rendition of the final product"
Releasing a preview, a developer says "this is not done. THIS IS NOT DONE! I promise you for this thing NOT to be production-ready by any stretch".

The joy of working at a big multinational company

mheyman2-Nov-21 9:42

mheyman

2-Nov-21 9:42

Use RC unless you want to code MAUI (or some other non-release tech) - MAUI is still in preview and is only available with the preview VS2022.

Super Lloyd31-Oct-21 13:38

Re: The joy of working at a big multinational company

31-Oct-21 13:38

I had one day off.
Logging on Monday (BTW, just became an employee instead of contractor, with same pay, yeah me!), I synced the code and.....

Downloading 57,870 new files... Blush | :O

Just a Monday here Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

A new .NET Serializer
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar
Taking over the world since 1371!

lmoelleb31-Oct-21 21:42

lmoelleb

31-Oct-21 21:42

Someone probably checked in the downloaded files from a "hello world" web project. Laugh | :laugh:

Re: The joy of working at a big multinational company

dandy721-Nov-21 4:13

dandy72

1-Nov-21 4:13

And you need all those files, or could you not work off of a (still buildable) subset of that?

Re: The joy of working at a big multinational company

Super Lloyd1-Nov-21 14:07

Re: The joy of working at a big multinational company

1-Nov-21 14:07

No idea! ^^
But to say that the 2 solutions I work with are humongous would be an understatement, I am running out of superlatives! OMG | :OMG:

A new .NET Serializer
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar
Taking over the world since 1371!

Stuart Dootson1-Nov-21 5:56

Stuart Dootson

1-Nov-21 5:56

They're letting you have the real code now you're an employee... (congrats, BTW)

Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p

Re: The joy of working at a big multinational company

Super Lloyd1-Nov-21 14:08

Re: The joy of working at a big multinational company

1-Nov-21 14:08

Hahaha.... Reality uncovered! Big Grin | :-D

Thanks btw Smile | :)

A new .NET Serializer
All in one Menu-Ribbon Bar
Taking over the world since 1371!

dandy722-Nov-21 4:32

dandy72

2-Nov-21 4:32

Stuart Dootson wrote:
They're letting you have the real code

Now fix it. Smile | :)

(well, maybe I'd be more insistent if you worked for Rockstar...the more I play GTA Online, the more I'm convinced there's not a single aspect of this game that doesn't have some bug.)

The Red Roses reign supreme

Richard MacCutchan31-Oct-21 7:18

Richard MacCutchan

31-Oct-21 7:18

Did you see those ladies just walk all over New Zealand (43-12)? I wonder if the men could take some lessons from them?

Re: The Red Roses reign supreme

Greg Utas31-Oct-21 9:49

Greg Utas

31-Oct-21 9:49

Did they moon the haka? Big Grin | :-D

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Error handing is taking me more time than the functionality :(

honey the codewitch31-Oct-21 5:16

Re: Error handing is taking me more time than the functionality :(

31-Oct-21 5:16

Edit: Aha! I knew there was an anti-pattern in what I was doing.

The simple solution is to modify the lexer rules, adding a new rule with a symbol ID of #ERROR (-1) and making it match EVERYTHING. Since it will be added to the state machine last every other match overrides it. This allows the state machine building code to do the heavy lifting of crafting the logic to gather error tokens.

I've actually done this before. I can't believe it didn't occur to me. I can't believe my code didn't already do it. It's one of those simple rules of lexing that I seemed to have learned at one point and then forgotten. Never again. This took me hours.

Edit 2: Aaand that didn't work because it needs to lazy match for that to be effective.

You can do lazy matching with DFAs using a little known technique. Constructing Fast Lexical Analyzers with RE/flex - Why Another Scanner Generator?[^] does it, and the author promised to release a paper on how that worked but I haven't seen anything further on it and the source code is ... creative - everything is done in constructors, just for starters so I haven't been able to make heads or tails of it.

Edit 3: I think I finally solved it without hacking anything too badly.

Edit 4: Solved it and have one of the template generators for the new code (targeting C# so far) implemented:

This is what victory looks like.

Terminal

Tokenizing: ...         /* ...a*/ baz  ... 12343 foo    123.22 bar....

AbsolutePosition: 0, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 0, Length: 3, SymbolId: -1, Value: ..., Line: 1, Column: 1
AbsolutePosition: 5, AbsoluteLength: 9, Position: 5, Length: 9, SymbolId: 40, Value: /* ...a*/, Line: 1, Column: 9
AbsolutePosition: 15, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 15, Length: 3, SymbolId: 6, Value: baz, Line: 1, Column: 19
AbsolutePosition: 20, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 20, Length: 3, SymbolId: -1, Value: ..., Line: 1, Column: 24
AbsolutePosition: 24, AbsoluteLength: 5, Position: 24, Length: 5, SymbolId: 3, Value: 12343, Line: 1, Column: 28
AbsolutePosition: 30, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 30, Length: 3, SymbolId: 6, Value: foo, Line: 1, Column: 34
AbsolutePosition: 34, AbsoluteLength: 6, Position: 34, Length: 6, SymbolId: 4, Value: 123.22, Line: 1, Column: 41
AbsolutePosition: 41, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 41, Length: 3, SymbolId: 6, Value: bar, Line: 1, Column: 48
AbsolutePosition: 44, AbsoluteLength: 4, Position: 44, Length: 4, SymbolId: -1, Value: ...., Line: 1, Column: 51

AbsolutePosition: 0, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 0, Length: 3, SymbolId: -1, Value: ..., Line: 1, Column: 1
AbsolutePosition: 5, AbsoluteLength: 9, Position: 5, Length: 9, SymbolId: 40, Value: /* ...a*/, Line: 1, Column: 9
AbsolutePosition: 15, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 15, Length: 3, SymbolId: 6, Value: baz, Line: 1, Column: 19
AbsolutePosition: 20, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 20, Length: 3, SymbolId: -1, Value: ..., Line: 1, Column: 24
AbsolutePosition: 24, AbsoluteLength: 5, Position: 24, Length: 5, SymbolId: 3, Value: 12343, Line: 1, Column: 28
AbsolutePosition: 30, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 30, Length: 3, SymbolId: 6, Value: foo, Line: 1, Column: 34
AbsolutePosition: 34, AbsoluteLength: 6, Position: 34, Length: 6, SymbolId: 4, Value: 123.22, Line: 1, Column: 41
AbsolutePosition: 41, AbsoluteLength: 3, Position: 41, Length: 3, SymbolId: 6, Value: bar, Line: 1, Column: 48
AbsolutePosition: 44, AbsoluteLength: 4, Position: 44, Length: 4, SymbolId: -1, Value: ...., Line: 1, Column: 51

___ snip ___
Trying to match tokens such that runs of error characters get reported as one error, rather than one error for each rejected character.

This is shockingly difficult. I've given up on it in the past, like with my Rolex project, but Reggie is to replace Rolex, among other things, and I'm not willing to ship the latest without that sorted out.

The reason it's such a big deal is multiple errors for one error result can mess with "panic mode" error recovery in parsers that are built on top of a lexer like this because it will get confused as to how many bad tokens there actually are in the text, which makes an already bad situation worse when parsing a document with errors in it.

The thing is it seems so bloody simple, but every similarly simple approach I've taken with it has fallen flat on its face.

This is getting in the way of me releasing code.

Real programmers use butterflies

modified 31-Oct-21 18:08pm.

User 1537660031-Oct-21 6:05

User 15376600

31-Oct-21 6:05

Your statement confirms what a great job the IntelliSense developers are doing. And they have been busy with it for decades and it is a team of many (hundreds?) developers / basic researchers.

So don't be so hard on yourself! From what I'm reading from your articles: You are doing a great job Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

modified 29-Nov-21 21:01pm.

Re: Error handing is taking me more time than the functionality :(

honey the codewitch31-Oct-21 6:11

Re: Error handing is taking me more time than the functionality :(

31-Oct-21 6:11

Thanks!

It is and they are, especially since it is pluggable especially with VS Code. It's really quite amazing, but they do it I think using regex mostly. I used to parse to try to get to syntax highlighting but that's an anti-pattern. Comments and (often) whitespace need to be stripped so the parser doesn't trip over them, and reporting those elements "out of band" to the highlighter complicates things, because they must "pass through" the parser without the parser choking on them. It's easier to discard them. Furthermore, parsers are way more finicky about errors and choke up far more easily on bad input.

I think what VS Code (i refuse to call it Visual Studio Code) and Visual Studio (in one of its two modes at least) does a variation of PEG parsing, which is heavily regular expression and substitution oriented, but I can't be sure because I haven't dug into it, but either way, I think regex or a similar set of constructions (possibly something of a superset) runs the show.

With parsers, you typically use "substitution grammars" and they require the text to be far more structured, but unlike with the kind of thing syntax highlighters use you get a nice clean, unambiguous tree back, which is more suitable for a compiler to consume.

Real programmers use butterflies

User 1537660031-Oct-21 6:22

User 15376600

31-Oct-21 6:22

Quote: "...but they do it I think using regex mostly."
I don't think so, but of course I also don't know it ...
For me it looks more like an 'error tolerant parser' with some strategies (trial and error scenarios?) to solve / become synch again.
Sorry, my English is to bad to explain it more precise. In my crazy brain I would compare it to a file comparing tool which has to decide to skip 'a certain part' to get synchronized again... and this with a parsing is for me a similar thing... to skip parts which are not ok.

modified 29-Nov-21 21:01pm.

Re: Error handing is taking me more time than the functionality :(

honey the codewitch31-Oct-21 6:24