Welcome to the Lounge

Greg Utas2-Aug-21 3:54

Greg Utas

2-Aug-21 3:54

I put a GPLv3 license on my open-source software. It basically says that the code can be used freely as long as the resulting code is also open-source. However, it also allows the software to be licensed under another license approved by the FSF. Commercial software usually wants to be proprietary, which another FSF-approved license allows. But someone who wants that license instead of GPLv3 would have to pay. If you're willing to take the risk that they could just open-source their software so they don't have to pay, you could use the GPLv3 license after verifying this approach for yourself, as I didn't consult a lawyer.

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Member 133016792-Aug-21 22:08

Member 13301679

2-Aug-21 22:08

Firstly, if you're selling software, you're always only selling licenses, regardless of whether you are providing the source code or not.

Secondly, this is a common occurrence, and you give the the same license as yo wold have with selling compiled binaries, with an extra NDA clause that prevents them from opening up your source code to the world. Everything else stays the same, mostly.

For example, I usually add a clause, in addition to the NDA, that allows the licensee unlimited use of the source and software as long as the other license restrictions are adhered to. If they break the license they are no longer a licensee and there not eligible to use the license.

Eddy Vluggen3-Aug-21 11:10

Eddy Vluggen

3-Aug-21 11:10

Member 13301679 wrote:
Firstly, if you're selling software, you're always only selling licenses, regardless of whether you are providing the source code or not.

Ehr, no. And one needs to specify what is sold. But you might be selling all your work, without having any rights.

Member 13301679 wrote:
in addition to the NDA

NDA isn't valid here.

Welcome to Europe.

Bastard Programmer from Hell Suspicious | :suss:

"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.

Nelek4-Aug-21 1:19

Nelek

4-Aug-21 1:19

Eddy Vluggen wrote:
But you might be selling all your work, without having any rights.

What it is usually done in the PLC Industry, customers buy the working solution and the source code, although I always kept the copyright and the right to further use my own created functionality, but only the generic stuff that can be used everywhere, in the moment that was something relative to the industrial line I had programmed, it was ownership of the customer and could not be re-used.

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

Kirk 103898213-Aug-21 6:55

Kirk 10389821

3-Aug-21 6:55

There is Copyright and Ownership considerations, and the impact on other NDAs and Contracts you may have signed, plus the "Work-For-Hire" rules that might apply to you.

I've learned a hard lesson on this. After working with my attorney, we went with a dual ownership license for one client who demanded (and paid) for code ownership. We each owned a non-infringement COPY of the code, that came along with a dual non-compete.

My excitement to help a prior company get off the ground, resulted in me losing control of my own code, that I had a documented history of. Simply because the "crook/liar/cheat" on the other end of the table would lie through his teeth under oath, and I would not. [Our court system is a joke in this regard]

I was stuck with an untenable situation. Worse, if the people you are working with today EVER sell the company to some Hedge Fund who sees a chance to leverage your work, they behave very differently than the person who signed the contract with you.

Finally, I stopped doing a lot of work where I deliver the source. The client can "own" their compiled programs/scripts/etc. But I consider my source like Lawyers consider their Template Contracts! (Imagine a law firm that, once they write a contract, is disallowed from ever using those same paragraphs, or SIMILAR paragraphs in a future contract... Even for a similar company, in a similar situation? But, somehow, Source Code, and the knowledge and years that leverages it's creation, can have such restrictions placed against it, and in some NDAs include FUTURE enhancements to said code! Meaning the law firm, if they make the paragraph even better for me, CANNOT use that enhancement in future contracts).

Good Luck!

Nelek3-Aug-21 10:49

Nelek

3-Aug-21 10:49

About the licensing you already have some good answers, but most of them are considering the licensing of the software as they know it, not in the PLC world.
Working with PLCs, it is really easy to get a copy of the PLC content (a.k.a. the source code), most PLCs and some robot vendors save the code in a easy to download and readable format (heck, some robots have it in plain text) and the security possibilities are not that good (even the "KNOW-HOW-PROTECT" of Siemens is relative easily bypassed).

Considering it I see a big fat problem with this, and is... how to find out / prove the license break.

Example:
You program the PLCs at customer 1 with your software, a third party comes to do add a new small station that has to interact with the sps and takes a copy from online, adds or changes code, transfer back the new version.

Time later (with a big portion of luck) you find your code in a completely different place, because the guy that was at customer 1 kept the copy of the code and liked some of your functions and started using them.

Here would be "relative" easy to find out who copied and (ab)used your work. But that would be a copyright problem against that 3rd party guy, but not a license problem.
And none of the companies you visit could be considered guilty, or would have to pay you any "damage" for it.

M.D.V.

modified 3-Aug-21 16:59pm.

CCC 2021-08-02

Greg Utas2-Aug-21 0:32

Greg Utas

2-Aug-21 0:32

modification of it in clue is unfortunate (12)

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

pkfox2-Aug-21 1:38

2-Aug-21 1:38

infelicitous

"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

Peter_in_27802-Aug-21 1:41

Peter_in_2780

2-Aug-21 1:41

Beat me by THAT much. Spent too long on UN... anagrams Poke tongue | ;-P

Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012

pkfox2-Aug-21 1:43

2-Aug-21 1:43

So did I Peter then I saw it - you can take it if you like I've done plenty lately

"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

Re: CCC 2021-08-02: winner

Peter_in_27802-Aug-21 2:17

Peter_in_2780

2-Aug-21 2:17

I've done 3 in the last week or two, so you keep it.

Software rusts. Simon Stephenson, ca 1994. So does this signature. me, 2012

Greg Utas2-Aug-21 1:41

Greg Utas

2-Aug-21 1:41

YAUT!

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles
The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.

Does the CCC start when it's 9.00am in the country of the setter now ?

pkfox1-Aug-21 22:58

Re: Does the CCC start when it's 9.00am in the country of the setter now ?

1-Aug-21 22:58

"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP

CodeWraith1-Aug-21 23:51

CodeWraith

1-Aug-21 23:51

Do you really think that I would get up in the middle of the night for that?

I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.

His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.

Re: Does the CCC start when it's 9.00am in the country of the setter now ?

pkfox2-Aug-21 0:11