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fd9750 wrote: Having been to the USA umpteen times that does not surprise me at all.
Most of the population there is hardly aware that there is something like a world outside of the USA.
Examples?
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My cousin was in a US family for 4 months last year. They explained her some things like she came of middle age or something similar.
"This is a wash machine... do you have this in germany?" 
Luckily enough, they realized the "error" pretty fast and then it was better.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
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Nelek wrote: "This is a wash machine... do you have this in germany?"
I don't know Germany but I do know Mexico and that type of question is perfectly reasonable when dealing with Mexico.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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On the other hand...
When I was high school age, I spent a year in a US family. Part of the experience was giving presentations in various groups about how it was to be a seventeen year old back home in Norway. At that time, Norway had a single TV channel, a fact completely out of the mental reach of the kids.
So what did we do, evenings and nighs?
We went on trips, walking or biking. Maybe fishing.
Maybe to the movies, but that was only in the weekends.
So what did you do otherwise?
We visited each other and sat down discussing. Talking.
Talk??? Did you talk, every night???
That is what I remember in particular "Did you talk, every night?"
It made no sense to them, even for upper-teenage kids to spend time talking, disussing. The value of whetting your ideas and thoughts against an opposition, coming to terms with your own thougts, seemed to be a more or less completely unknown value to them. They didn't understand why I valued it highly.
There were physical elements quite different from what I was used to: I was familiar with washing machines, so they caused no problem, but I was shocked to learn that wintertime, the sofa and chairs was pulled back from the outer walls, away from the frost. If there were insulation in the walls at all, it certainly was only a fraction of what I was used to. We clinged to the huge central oil furnace, staying away from outer walls and windows. (This was in Minnesota; blizzards were certainly not uncommon!)
My shock over missing insulation (and several similar things) I did not proclaim loudly, but filed in my archive: That's how they do it here - rather than insulating, they keep a really huge oil furnace and pull all the furniture away from the outer walls at winter time. Crazy, in my eyes, but if that's how they want it... Actually, it is not too far away from the washing machine: Your Norwegian host family takes you on a two week mountain trip, with no washing machine in the tent. Up in the mountains, what to you prefer: Go on in your dirty clothes, or wash them in a bucket at the cabin?
That is what student exchange programs are for: Telling how large the cultural differences may be, even between supeficially quite similar societies. I was shocked how primitive building constructions were in the US Midwest; American kids coming to a higly developed country as Norway may be shocked by how primitive we are when we go out in nature. Dont' be shocked by anything, either way! Just observe that "OK, so that's the way it is done here". Or from the other side: "Oh, so you do not know how to handle this. I'll show you!"
I was also shocked by some of the opinions I heard, regarding racial minorities, members of other churches or beliefs, statements about politicians, or whatever. I had to ask myselv: Are these really cultivated people, the way I consider myself to be?
A generation ago, when I was in the US as an exchange student, you might easily get the impression that the main purpose of e.g. AFS (American Field Service) was to bring non-US students to the US of A for a year to teach them how great American culture is, for the exchange students to bring that message home. I didn't go with AFS, but with YfU, Youth for Understanding, which were early at sending students the other way as well: US kids spent a year in a non-US culture (maybe not even a Western one!). Today, two-way exchange is far more common in all the exchange organizations. Yet the fraction of US youth learning to know a non-US approach to the world is so small that it unfortunately has epsilon impact.
I strongly promote that today, the primary responsibility of the student exchange organizaions, like AFS and YfU, should be to bring US students out, rather than bringing foreign students in to the US of A
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Member 7989122 wrote: I strongly promote that today, the primary responsibility of the student exchange organizaions, like AFS and YfU, should be to bring US students out, rather than bringing foreign students in to the US of A
Exchange should be from every place to every other place. It doesn't matter if US or not.
I used myself the "erasmus" program to go to germany. What started with 2 semesters out ended in 15 years and counting...
The first year we were a group of erasmus of aprox 110 students from over 40 countries around the world, from the USA, mexico, through Europe, to Middle east until Taiwan...
After that I have traveled a lot in many different continents due to work. My most visited country out of Europe was India.
I strongly promote to get out of the confort zone and see the world. It is beautiful, you learn a lot of different things, it opens your mind and it makes you to be thankful of what you have when you go back home.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I went to Japan for a couple of years while in my early 20s. When people ask me what the most surprising thing was when I got there, I always answer, "I was most surprised to see that everything, except for the language on the signs, looked just like it did in the U.S." I later learned that the washing machine was different. No more or less advanced, just different, and more appropriate for the way the homes/apartments are layed out. It took me a while to figure it out, but I got it. I kind of miss it.
As far as the misconceptions, I blame the public schools here. Most of the textbooks are horribly out of date, and the newer ones are more politically driven rather than fact driven. There are a handful of good teachers, but most of them are incompetent, and each generation is a little less competent than the last (being a product of the previous). I even had a High School English teacher that could not understand when I, as a student, kept pointing out that there was a problem with that weeks vocabulary list.
Vocab: tort (noun) - to twist
Me: "Excuse me, Teacher, but isn't 'to twist' the definition of a verb?"
Teacher: "What?"
Me: You listed it as a noun, but your definition is for a verb.
Teacher: "What do you mean? If you have a problem with it, go look it up in the library."
Me: looks up 'tort'
Dictionary: "Tort (n): any harm done, whether intentional or accidental, causing injury or loss to another which can be tried in a court of law, including but not limited to negligence, intentional . . ." [it went on for about 3 long paragraphs]
Me: [thinking] "Hmm. I wonder if she is confusing this with the word root 'tort' that means to twist. That isn't a word by itself though. The noun is the only actual word 'tort'. I don't think teacher or the other students will understand this. Let me simplify it"
Me: "Ok Teacher. I'm back. Tort is a noun. It means 'Any harm done.'"
Teacher: "Fine. I'll change the vocab list."
Vocab: tort (noun) - to harm by twisting
Me: blows up into a tirade on how much of an incompetent boob teacher is ... with multiple examples ... in front of the full class ... until teacher bursts into tears and runs from the room.
No Teacher: Never came back. We had a "substitute" teacher for the rest of the semester. Amazingly enough, I never got in trouble for it. I was never even asked about it by school admins.
Money makes the world go round ... but documentation moves the money.
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@willichan The unfortunate reality of the public education here in the U.S. is that in many school systems, teachers are grossly underpaid. I have heard of teachers having to go on SNAP (government program to help people buy food) and with the constant cuts to education budgets, teachers often have to dip into their own paychecks to buy pencils, notebooks, and other baseline classroom materials. They are being asked to do more and more with less and less resources. Thus, due to the the poor pay and the poor support teachers receive, many who want to be teachers go into other fields and unfortunately, those that do become teachers tire of not doing the job they were hired to do, i.e. having to be parents, social workers, and psychotherapists to the students in their classrooms (due to poverty/hunger/family problems) before any educating can be done. The difficulties of attracting and keeping talent in the field has been going on for a long time. Turnover puts pressure on the schools and often have to hire out of desperation - "anybody is better than nobody". It is a "tough sell" to ask someone to go $100+ into debt for a college education only to get out and be poorly paid in a system that is poorly funded.
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I know that the money is becoming more of a problem in recent years, but the problems with public education go way back, and are a big part of why money is not available for paying good teachers. When tax dollars that are intended to go toward paying for supplies and paychecks, instead go political ads and feel-good programs (not to mention wasted money on poorly thought out programs like giving iPads to students), things are only going to get worse. Believe it or not, the teachers share a big part of the responsibility for this happening. When politics take precedent over knowledge, you are on the wrong path. Let me give a more recent example of this.
Every year, I encouraged my children to participate in the school science fair. Back when I was in school, the science fair was a serious competition that carried to a regional, state, then national level. It was not the joke it is today. I insisted that my children work on a project that involves real scientific research and understanding. They were not allowed to "see which chewing gum lost its flavor first" (the most common project I saw every year, even at the High School level). Every year, my children had fun learning a scientific concept, writing a summary report, and building an interactive display. Every year, my children were passed over, and not added to the school's public display.
One year, my middle school daughter told me that she really wanted to be chosen for the public display that year, and asked me what she could do. I told her that she would be doing two science projects. One that she would submit to the school, and one that she would submit to me. For her school project, I told her to scour the internet for pictures of birds and animals covered in oil, and pictures of ships on the ocean surrounded by oil slick. She then put these pictures all over her display board with a title of "Cleaning up oil spills". She then had a dish of water with cooking oil poured on top, and a toy boat floating in it. Then strips of makeup removal cotton rolled into bails, and forming a barrier between the oil and a far end of the dish with a rubber ducky floating in it. That was all; no report, no write-up, no evidence of any kind of scientific research or use of scientific method. She turned it in, and was unanimously voted for the "Teacher's Choice Award" by all of the school's teachers, and was placed in the front row of projects for the public display.
The project she turned in to me was an analysis of the comments and responses she got from her teachers, a conjecture as the the psychology involved, and her personal comparison of projects selected from her class vs. not selected, along with their educational worth. She, herself, concluded that practically none of the projects of worth were selected, and only those who's displays were colorful or struck an emotional nerve went on to the public display. She also included in her report how empty she felt when they called her to the front of the school assembly to give her the "Teacher's Choice Award". I made sure to give her the "Dad's Choice Award" for her second project (earned mean eye roll followed by a giggle).
On a side note, When I went through the school's science fair, I counted 8 chewing gum projects and 14 projects with hand drawn depictions of unrealistic/useless futuristic "inventions" that students said they wanted to build if they new how. Out of a total of about 60 projects on display, only one had any scientific merit, and showed ball bearings being accelerated along a rail by a series of magnets.
Just one example of the general disregard for actual education in favor of emotions and politics within the public school system.
Money makes the world go round ... but documentation moves the money.
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ZurdoDev wrote: Examples?
It is difficult to answer that without risking to be censored for talking politics in the Lounge.
I will risk it anyway: Lots of USanians blindly accept The Leader's claim that the nation is the world's leading nation in corona testing. The leader tells them, so why should they care to check e.g. the worldometers.info survey showing that in tests per capita, the US was earlier today ranking #43 on the list when ordered by tests per capita? When their leader tells them the Truth, why doubt it? What is the use of checking false news resources?
The Great Leader condemns the Swedish approach of "let the virus spread!" - Sweden has currently 30% more deaths per capita than the US - The Gerat Leader praises the Norwegian approach, my country, with no mention that the US has six times as many deaths per capita as Norway. Which True American looks beyond The Leader and his claims? Maybe a small handful of journalists, but they are easily knocked down for asking "nasty questions" at the press conferences.
I wish that this was limited to The Great Leader, but I know it isn't. To take one example: I was living in a US family for a year. Sometimes they bought loaves of bread from a baker using bread bags printed with "Bread for the world" (g** knows why!) and a series of different flags. For the flag labeled "Norway", the red and blue colors were interchanged. I pointed that out to my host family. They hardly cared to shrug: So what? The baker couldn't know that someone knowing the Norwegian flag would see those bread bags!
Another example, although second-hand: A colleague of mine told that he had been working with a US colleague at IBM (tradtionally more multi-culturally oriented than many other companies), complaining about poor support for the extra Scandinavian letters, æøå or in the Swedish variants äöå. This US guy, working with internationalization, claimed that they had full support. When my colleague asked about these letters, the issue was completely unknown to the US guy - at first he refused to accept that there could be other letters than a-z!
Lots of web stores insist that there must be a "state" level between the nation and town level, because that is the way it is in the US. In the phone number, they insist that there must be an area code between the nation code and the local number, the way it is in the US. They insist on a zip code following the state abbreviation, because that is the way it is in the US. How could anyone ever expect anything else? So non-USanians must fake it by repating the town name in the "state" field, and repeating the zip code in its proper postion as well as where the web page or application demands it, in the US of A defined position.
Lots of software take for granted that the full stop is a decimal separator and the comma is the thousands separator. Why would anyone ever think of doing it differently? Clock is by AM/PM - anything else is for the military guys, isn't it? Why would anyone ever consider a date format different from "May 12th, 2020" - anything else is outright silly, isn't it?
From my very first stay in a US family, in high school age, and onwards, I have countless times had to "defend myself" agaist the sometimes intense interrogation: You are not serious, are you? Claiming that you would not want to move to the US of A if you had the opportunity to? Why don't you apply - with your education, you would be accepted immediately! I have spent enormous amonts of energy on explaining that there are values in society, people, environment ... everything! that are not valued in an US society, but valued by me. It is not at all understood by those US citizens I have met. The count is quite high.
Let me conclude with an example from Norway:
One of my coworkers were born grew up in the US of A, and came to Norway as an adult. She quickly adapted to our morals. When her sister was visiting, seeing the two daughters of my coworker playing on the lawn, two and four years old and stark naked, she went straight out to buy binkins for those little girls "to cover their bodies".
Nowadays, even National Geographic goes to extremes to protect sensistive American souls from the shocking fact that in other parts of the world, girl kids (and boys, too!) of two and four years do run around stark naked. That is perfectly fine! Why not? Even taking photos of them is perfectly fine - but of course we cannot show them on internet, in case some super-sensitive US soul might technically have access to them. So we must keep those photos under strict control so that they do not offend those tender US souls...
I sometimes get a feeling that USAnians honestly believe that naked bodies are so unnatural that they nowhere in the world are acceptable, regardless of culture, age and sex. It cannot be possible that any human, anywhere in the world, do not develop a modesty, a shame, from age two at the latest. We do in the US of A, so that must be the natural thing! And don't tell us that we have enforced our morals on the kid - we have been perfectly neutral and open! It comes naturally!
From having lived in a US family for one year, later for eight months as a student, and later on about a dozen professional travels, I have a strong impression that fd9750 is right: The awareness of anything outside the US of A is geneally very low. Even for those knowing that there is something out there, the importamce of the US of A is frequently grossly over-estimated.
USAnians seem to think that they represent The Strong and Rightous Father, Leading the World ... while the outerworld sees US of A as one of the world's countries. Currently it is better at destructing non-Western civilisations than any other country, but in European countries there is an opposition questioning the virtue of that capability. The US doctrine is essentially "Peace is enforced by destruction of cultures different from our own". Not all Europeans subscribe to that.
Bottom line: ZurdoDev's claim that most of the US of A population "is hardly aware that there is something like a world outside of the USA" should be modified to "is hardly aware that there is anything outside of the USA, either in a geographical or cultural sense, that is valuable and worthy of protection, even it it conflicts witn the culture or ideals promoted in the US of A".
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Member 7989122 wrote: Lots of USanians blindly accept The Leader's claim that the nation is the world's leading nation in corona testing. The leader tells them, so why should they care to check e.g.
First off, where are you getting your stats for "lots?" And how many is lots? I would bet it is because you are blindly listening to our left-wing media which is known for lying. So, I find it very ironic that you would claim others are blindly listening to Trump.
Did Trump ever say per capita?
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TLDR
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And you say that you have higher values than the US but are OK with kids running around naked. That's pretty funny.
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Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: Did Trump ever say per capita?
First: I never suggested that he did, because he didn't.
That is the very problem. He is very concious about when to point out that USA is the huge 330 million population: Considering that, the figures are reasonable. He leaves it at that, knowing very well that 99,9% of his audience will never check up the figures, and compare them to other countries. At least 99,95% of the audience will conclude from what he says that even though figures are high, that is because of the population size, as pointed out by Our Great Leader.
Whenever he refers to population size, you know that a high figure is negative. Take Corona deaths: Everyone knows about Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France and Sweden, but USA actually ranks #13 on that list. Sweden has 28% more deaths per capita, but he does not want the audience to focus on that; he rather points to the size of the USA, so that they will believe that USA is at least as good as the avareage, even though death counts are high. He rather praises Norway for choosing the same strategy as USA, without pointing out that the death per capita is one sixth of the USA figure. He wants to leave an impression that USA and Norway follows the same strategy with very similar results (but please do not check the figures!).
When a high figure is something to be proud of, then he never refers to the size of the US population. The essential point is that these figures are huge. Please do not ask for the per capita values; then they are not as impressing anymore. Take number of corona tests made: USA ranks #40 (up from 43 a week ago). Norway's per capita is 26% higher, but ignore that: Norway has made only 205,239 tests while USA has made a whooping 9,935,720 - isn't that something to be proud of? Russia has made 37% more tests per capita, Italy 47%, Belgium 74%, Spain 76% more, Luxembourg 3 times as many, Iceland 5,3 times as many -but please keep this low (it ruins the image of USA being the world leader, rather than #40).
If a journalist would dare to point out such facts, Our Great Leader would most likely call it a "nasty question". Maybe he would leave the press conference. He probably would call the figures "false news" (aka "news that I don't like"). If he decided to step down and answer in a "polite" (for being him) way, he would most certainly not at all relate to Russia, Italy, Spain, but point out that Iceland is a very small country. Russia, Spain and Italy taken together have 77% the population of USA, but has in absolute numbers made 12% more tests that the USA, and you won't get far by treating those three as small and insignificant. Please look at Iceland instead: Less than 55,000 tests, compared to USA's 9,9 million!
You can listen to Our Great Leader to learn if a high figure gives a good or bad impression of the USA: If he refers to the size of the US population, it is bad. If he refers to absolute figures, it is good. That is more reliable than the specific figures he quotes!
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Member 7989122 wrote: I never suggested that he did, because he didn't.
Then why did you argue that point?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: Then why did you argue that point?
Because I didn't. I pointed out that per capita figures may give a completely different impression, but I did not say that Our Great Leader said so.
Well, he might have, when I didn't hear it. But I haven't heard him refer to per capita figures in any of the press conferences I have listened to. As I wrote in my previous entry: If he wants to diminish an unpleasantly high figure, he refers to the size of the US population, and leaves it at that. If he wants to diminish some positive values from another country, he point out the smallness of the country's population, to make it appear as insignficant. So he does refer to population size, in ways that makes US appear as highly successful and other countries' sucesses insignificant. But he does not refer to per capita figures; they wouldn't serve his election campaign.
And I never did say that he refers to per capita figures.
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Member 7989122 wrote: And I never did say that he refers to per capita figures.
Never said you did.
However, here IS what you said. Quote: The leader tells them, so why should they care to check e.g. the worldometers.info survey showing that in tests per capita, the US was earlier today ranking #43 on the list when ordered by tests per capita? When their leader tells them the Truth, why doubt it? What is the use of checking false news resources?
You are accusing people of blindly believing what he says. He IS correct in that the US has done more tests, even your own link says so. So, then you went on to claim that per capita is a different story. You started out down one argument path and then jumped to another non-related one.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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There's a not-so-fine line between "discussing politics" and "hating on another country".
There's no politics being discussed here.
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Member 7989122 wrote: Lots of web stores insist that there must be a "state" level between the nation and town level
Member 7989122 wrote: Lots of software take for granted that the full stop is a decimal separator and the comma is the thousands separator
This is so true! 
I agree with you though, Americans seem very ignorant of the rest of the world.
Not all, of course, but probably a good majority.
Anyway, you seem new here, so let me tell you this.
Don't bother "discussing" with ZurdoDev, he's a stereotype American (every non-American knows what that means) in all his (Christian) values and morals (of which he always has the high ground) and a troll if ever there was one.
In fact, he might well be the personification of all your points
He already concluded I'm a bad child killing maniac because I'm pro-abortion.
Those were pretty much his exact words, it wasn't flattering.
I've been ignoring him since then.
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The simplest example is news on television, whether or not they lean to the left or right side is not even relevant.
In the US they have one thing in common: whenever there is a news broadcast it is almost 100% local (USA) news. If anything important happens anywhere else it is barely mentioned and if so very briefly.
When you are used to news broadcasts in Europe which generally spend almost 50% of the time on reporting stuff happening somewhere outside of their own country or outside of Europe the difference is staggering.
The result is that the average European has a pretty good idea where the USA is, where, for example, Texas and California are within it and where a good number of countries in Europe, South America, Africa and Asia are.
I am sad to having to say it but personal experience tells me that that is rarely the case for the average US citizen.
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fd9750 wrote: it is almost 100% local (USA) news
It's a big country.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Yeah, it has slightly below 5% of the world's population. Why would USA care about the other 95%?
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Member 7989122 wrote: . Why would USA care about the other 95%?
For starters, because you all have an incorrect view of the US.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Oh, we fully understand that USA sees the entire world as a market for Coke and Levis and American movies and TV shows; we are not immaterial to USA in that sense.
And the US navy, army and air force certainly care for the rest of the world as a playground.
We could list several other areas where the US certainly knows how to make use of other parts of the world. The problem is the way it is done.
When a country experiences US actions as an exploitation, you may of course say that they "have an incorrect view of the US"; they haven't understood that the Americans are really nice guys who comes to free up the country for the country's benefit. They just want to give the population what the population is craving for, such as coke, hamburers and American TV shows. If only those people could understand what benefit it would be themselves if they only adapt The American Way (*), they would wish the B52s and army soldiers welcome, and bow to their demands.
(*) I've got the first Superman movie in my DVD shelf for one single line: When Superman declares that "I am going to figth for peace, justice and The American Way". Way back in my student days I was at the Norwegian premiere, in a packed 2500 seat movie theather. When this line was said, the entire audience broke out in a roar of laughter, followed by a intense and lengthy applause and heavy foot stomping, so noone could hear the following three or four lines.
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Member 7989122 wrote: And the US navy, army and air force certainly care for the rest of the world as a playground.
Protecting other countries is having a playground? 
I agree, we should get out of the world babysitting business. See how many countries do fine without us. My taxes could go way down.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: I agree, we should get out of the world babysitting business.
Please do work for this! There are so many countries around the world that would be grateful!
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Member 7989122 wrote: There are so many countries around the world that would be grateful!
such as?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: For starters, because you all have an incorrect view of the US
Well, we certainly seem to have a different view of the US. But that's the thing; the view of pretty much anything is different from inside when compared to the view from outside. But that does not make either view "incorrect"; just "different".
ZurdoDev wrote: And you say that you have higher values than the US but are OK with kids running around naked
I don't think he did say he had "higher" values. Again, the values are different, not higher or lower. When it comes to morals, there is no such thing as absolutes; you can only ever judge by comparing to your own morals, and virtually by definition no-one is going to have higher morals than oneself.
But this is a common (in my experience) thing with Americans; whereas pretty much everyone else can acknowledge that whilst there may be differences between cultures, they are just that; Americans tend to judge those differences and/or discard different views as being inconsequential. There is an absolute self-centredness that marginalises or dismisses as inferior everything non-American. (Oh, and if you read "self-centredness" and thought I'd made a spelling mistake, that is proof of my assertion! )
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