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Really? Make is nasty but simple. I use it because I can't figure out CMake. They're easy to write if you can get over their use of whitespace, which i hate
Real programmers use butterflies
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Whitespace?! And you diss Python because it gives indentation significance? Why do people put up with this shite?
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Unfortunately because enough other people put up with it that it became the de facto standard.  
Real programmers use butterflies
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That's almost like Yogi Berra's quote, "No one goes there anymore. It's too crowded." 
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honey the codewitch wrote: Make is nasty
No more so than many other products. I used it extensively in my working life, and found it had uses beyond simple software builds.
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I'm mostly referring to the syntax, and it's about as bad as perl given that it has a smaller surface area. It makes bash look positively readable by comparison.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Any syntax is 'bad' until you learn it. C, C++, Java, Smalltalk, even COBOL ...
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I mean specifically bad as in poorly designed.
Not all syntax is created equal despite your implication to the contrary.
Significant whitespace is nonsense, for example, both from a parsing standpoint, and from a usability standpoint. Technically speaking it's Broken As Designed.
Same with things that cannot easily be remembered by way mnemonic or anything like that. Make is littered with that.
Just like code can be readable and unreadable, so can syntax. A grammar can be well designed, or it can be designed poorly.
C# is an example of a well designed grammar. Make is an example of a poorly designed grammar.
It is what it is.
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: C# is an example of a well designed grammar. Make is an example of a poorly designed grammar.
As with most things in life, it depends on your point of view.
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A) Try parsing the syntax. Significant whitespace presents real technical challenges to parsers.
B) Try remembering the syntax. If it can't be easily remembered, it's always going to be niche**. See also, vi.
** or replaced with something that is better.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Thanks for the video, it came at an opportune time.
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Sorry my automated systems failed - you should have a copy of the book in your inbox now.
Have a great day!
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Hi David, yes just arrived, thanks. Having watched the video, I look forward t reading the book.
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I hope you enjoy the intellectual journey!
Best wishes.
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Me too!
.. mostly because it worked well for me in 2003 and googling a makefile takes about 2 minutes, so why change?
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A dear friend of mine, Richard Jones (now sadly departed), had a notice on his office wall that read
"I know you think you understood what I said, but I don't think you understood that I didn't say what I meant"
I have no idea where that quote came from.
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Reminds me of "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." 
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A boss of mine actually said that to me once.
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How about "emacs and vi both suck, you feeble penguin-molesting twit"
Software Zen: delete this;
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In the Before Times, we talked about WYSIWYG(*) being a big deal. (*) What You See Is What You Get
With the advent of artificial intelligence and machine learning, it's DWIMNWIS - Do What I Meant Not What I Said.
Software Zen: delete this;
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So I have this spoiled little brat energetic neighbor kid.
In the past week he threw or kicked some of his footballs over the fence into my garden.
My neighbor said I shouldn't give them back if he didn't ask for them because that would teach him not to throw his stuff into my garden.
So the kid already came to my door last week, but I wasn't at home, which pissed him off, according to my neighbor.
Today, he knocked on my door again and I opened, but the kid is only 5 years old and very shy, so he just stood there.
His mom, keeping an eye on him from her own front door, said "what do we say to the neighbor?"
And he just said "...my balls..."
I lost my sh*t and just laughed at him "Hahaha your balls huh? Muwhahaha! "
Luckily, his mom could laugh about it too, so I didn't come across as a complete a**hole making fun of little kids.
I told him I'd throw his balls back over the fence and his mother told him to thank me, which he sort of did under his breath.
He now has his balls back and I doubt he'll be throwing them in my garden again
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Or you could have invited him over to spend time in your garden, planting, repairing, etc so as to appreciate that which others toil over. If he had a vested interest in your garden, he would be less likely to toss toys over the fence.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
modified 6-Jun-21 22:06pm.
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