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super wrote: IMHO this is irrelevant.
Yes.
His post was the same as we saw many times in the soapbox where people would claim that big businesses paid no taxes at all and start crying about the evils of capitalism.
But apparently it was meant in humor.
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ZurdoDev wrote: where people would claim that big businesses paid no taxes at all
It's a well-documented fact that US tech giants don't pay anything like the taxes they should pay, so:
1. There's no arguing with it (and anyone who has to pay more tax from their tiny salaries to compensate for the shortfall really shouldn't defend them). I don't really give a bugger about that; I'm not starving.
2. It makes them a nice target for satire and snark. This I do like.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: It's a well-documented fact that US tech giants don't pay anything like the taxes they should pay, so:
Nope that's opinion. They are following laws so they are paying exactly what they are supposed to. That's not me defending them, I don't care about them, that's me just stating your opinion is not fact.
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Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: Nope that's opinion.
I'm afraid it's not, but you go ahead and believe what you want.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: I'm afraid it's not,
Well, if your opinion were fact then all of these companies would be in jail. 
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Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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It's not that simple. Have a look into it.
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Mark_Wallace wrote: It's not that simple.
In America it is. You said it yourself, they are targets. If they are doing something illegal there are thousands of lawyers that would jump on that payday and take them to court. But that hasn't happened, has it?
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Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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A high percentage of their revenue is not made in the US.
As I said, have a look into it, before continuing to argue from the position of a little learning.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: A high percentage of their revenue is not made in the US.
Agreed. But that changes nothing. If I make money in foreign markets and it does not come back to the US then I don't pay US taxes. Simple. So, a lot of these companies use LEGAL tax avoidance procedures (such as offshore profits). Whether that is fair or not is a matter of opinion, not fact. Facts do not care about your feelings.
Mark_Wallace wrote: to argue from the position of a little learning.
Good call. You are the expert, I realize that now. My mistake for calling you out and asking you to backup your point. So silly of me to expect that.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: If I make money in foreign markets and it does not come back to the US then I don't pay US taxes.
Actually, you do. You should perhaps read up on US tax law, too.
But the big thing is that they take money out of dozens of national economies, and don't pay tax on it anywhere.
As I said, read up on it, if you're interested, but kindly stop arguing from a position of having simply decided what you want to believe.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: Actually, you do. You should perhaps read up on US tax law, too.
Here is one reference, What America's Biggest Companies Pay In Taxes[^] Quote: The U.S. continues to employ a so-called worldwide tax system. That means that earnings made overseas are only taxed when they come back to the U.S.
But I suppose I should believe some random dev dude on the internet instead.
Mark_Wallace wrote: the big thing is that they take money out of dozens of national economies, and don't pay tax on it anywhere.
Then change the laws to make that illegal. What part do you not understand with the phrase "facts do not care about your feelings?"
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Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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dandy72 wrote: I wish I could pay that little taxes
Some were 25%+, is that what you are referring to?
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I'm going with the sample numbers. In the very first example - Berkshire Hathaway - paid $9.2B on sales of $223B. That's 4%. Go through the other entries in the gallery.
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dandy72 wrote: Go through the other entries
True, I didn't read through the article that much.
dandy72 wrote: Berkshire Hathaway - paid $9.2B on sales of $223B.
Didn't read the article; however, I do know a lot about Berkshire and they essentially own other companies and don't really have sales themselves. So, I'm not sure those numbers are accurate.
But ya, 4% taxes would be great. I'd love for everyone to pay the same percentage of taxes instead of the progressive tax the US has.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
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Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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You mean as a percentage of your profit?
Profit is income minus cost. That's what most companies pay taxes over.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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What's "profit" for an individual like myself? I pay income taxes. Whether I have any money left in my pockets at the end of the year or not (income minus cost, as you put it) is entirely irrelevant as far as my tax office is concerned.
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Mark_Wallace wrote: they take money out of dozens of national economies, and don't pay tax on it anywhere.
A rhetorical question:
I wonder what the value is (if any?) of the services they provide, to said economies and perhaps more to the point, their citizens?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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What is your value to the economy where you are, and do you pay your taxes?
If the google search engine disappeared, everyone would simply use a different one, so no added value there.
If google's intrusive, privacy-destroying, but ultimately useless ad-targeting stopped, no-one would miss it -- but most of the companies that use it would suddenly find themselves better off (study after study has shown that it results in zero sales improvement over untargeted advertising -- not google's own studies, of course).
If android disappeared, it would obviously be the year of the Linux phone OS!
Or the HuaWei one, which is already looking pretty damned good (I can't read Mandarin, but all those Chinese characters, like I say, make it look pretty damned good!)
I neither know nor care what else alphabet is involved in -- I've got my own life to live, and little desire to waste much of it on them.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Mark_Wallace wrote: study after study has shown that it results in zero sales improvement over untargeted advertising
I can tell you that's wrong, because I have never clicked on an untargeted ad but I have clicked on targeted ones. Also, common sense would tell you that's wrong. I wonder what news sources you read. Hmmm.
Again, just making stuff up for humours sake maybe?
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Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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The studies are all searchable -- the serious stuff tends to be swamped by blogs, etc, but they're not too hard to find.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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ZurdoDev wrote: They are following laws so they are paying exactly what they are supposed to
We all know what Marc means : they have departments full of lawyers who bend the laws with complicated financial constructs so as to pay as less taxes as possible. Which is legal, yes, but ethically not how the lawmaker intended it to be.
Amazon had a turnover of €21,600,000,000, claimed profit of €60,000,000 and paid €16,500,000 in taxes, which is 27,5% of profit and 0,076% of turnover. I am currently paying 45% taxes on my incomes, and have no legal way to decrease this amount, at least none that I can afford looking for.
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Rage wrote: We all know what Marc means
I certainly don't because I've pointed out to him that it's legal and he hasn't commented on that aspect.
Rage wrote: I am currently paying 45% taxes on my incomes,
Ouch!! Guess you're the one paying for free healthcare.
But instead of everyone complaining about it how about we change the laws?
However, does anyone realize the benefit of them avoiding taxes? It allows larger profits and lower costs to consumer. In the end, the consumer pays 100% of the cost so if they can save some money, some of that will be reflected to the consumer.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: It allows larger profits and lower costs to consumer. In the end, the consumer pays 100% of the cost so if they can save some money, some of that will be reflected to the consumer.
Holy cow!
I think you need to change the colour of the lenses in your glasses!
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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ZurdoDev wrote: However, does anyone realize the benefit of them avoiding taxes? It allows larger profits and lower costs to consumer. In the end, the consumer pays 100% of the cost so if they can save some money, some of that will be reflected to the consumer.
The point is... we are not their consumers anymore... we are their product
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
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