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Termi Nater wrote: clear cut conclusions
I believe that is a mythical beast you are speaking of. 
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You presume that the universe is rational.
We're philosophical about power outages here. A.C. come, A.C. go.
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It is rational. Can you pray to turn plain water into wine?
I am waiting with an empty glass.
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Given the original thesis, today Marc proves the non-existence of God.
I don't have the energy to go look it up to provide a reference, but Douglas Adams wrote a pretty funny bit about this in one of the Hitchhiker's books.
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Marc Clifton wrote: since God is infinite, and infinite God could only exist in a finite universe
This assumes god exists within the universe and does not actually juggle a infinite number of universes in his hands...
Just saying...
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raddevus wrote: science cannot deal with infinite.
The sum of all positive integer numbers from 1 to infinity is -1/12. Proven by science
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Strike 1 : Philosophical concept and that is math. 
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Apparently the number (-1/12) crops up in quantum physics so maybe not so philosophical after all.
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F-ES Sitecore wrote: Apparently the number (-1/12) crops up in quantum physics
I'd like to see that!
Oh, wait, "crops up". That only exists in someones calculations they are doing.
Yes, I'm trolling you. Just kidding. I understand what you mean, but do consider the Scientific Method[^], won't you? 
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Richard Deeming wrote: Ramanujan: Making sense of 1+2+3+... = -1/12 and Co. - YouTube[^]
Thanks! Very Interesting!
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Seems like that's an integer underflow problem -- you need a bigger processor.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Google it and you'll find the "proof" (as in mathematical proof) that shows how the number was derived.
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Richard Deeming had a link and I was being facetious and snarky. Pretty cool math.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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F-ES Sitecore wrote: The sum of all positive integer numbers from 1 to infinity is -1/12. Proven by science
When I was a kid, I wanted to see what the largest integer the PDP-11 could count to. Then I wondered what happened when you added 1 to that. It was amusing to discover that I then found the smallest negative number.
Marc
Latest Article - Create a Dockerized Python Fiddle Web App
Learning to code with python is like learning to swim with those little arm floaties. It gives you undeserved confidence and will eventually drown you. - DangerBunny
Artificial intelligence is the only remedy for natural stupidity. - CDP1802
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raddevus wrote: The Universe cannot be infinite
Then where does it end and what's on the other side?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: Then where does it end and what's on the other side?
That was exactly the point I was driving at.
And, I'm sure you are asking that question rhetorically.
However, let us continue this line of thought.
The fact that you cannot fathom what is on the other side does not preclude it and infinity is, of course, in a physical world, impossible.
Here's your thought experiment to understand why infinity is impossible in a physical world.
Thought Experiment
Imagine you have a sidewalk that extends through your infinite Universe.
You are walking on the sidewalk. Uh, it just continues forever? What would that mean? It's not possible. It's impossible since we know that even the energy (thus mass) is of a limited quantity in the Universe.
Now, that gets you to a point where you absolutely must decide that the Universe (physical reality) has limitations.
The hard part is that you will now have to confront that reality (few people do and fewer want to) and decide that you now know that physicality cannot be the only thing.
Since the Universe cannot be infinite, there has to be an end somewhere. That means you must now contemplate what that means. Good discussion. And, I'm sure it's not done. 
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raddevus wrote: I'm sure you are asking that question rhetorically.
Actually no. I disagree with you that infinity is impossible in a physical world. And I'm serious, if it ended somewhere, what does that mean?
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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RyanDev wrote: I'm serious, if it ended somewhere, what does that mean?
It means your world (Universe) is smaller than you thought...and then instantly it is far, far larger. (You know? Because there's a whole other side to the Universe thing.)
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You seem to be dodging the question. 
There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Artfully though. Very artfully.
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raddevus wrote: Uh, it just continues forever? What would that mean? It's not possible.
So it's impossible because it's impossible? That seems a little recursive.
raddevus wrote: It's impossible since we know that even the energy (thus mass) is of a limited quantity in the Universe.
Since we can't even see beyond our "tiny" little 91 billion light-year wide bubble of stuff, there's no way to know whether that's true. All we can say is that there's a finite amount of stuff in our finite bubble.
I guess it depends on whether we define "the Universe" as everything within our connected spacetime that could have a chance to interact with us and vice versa[^], or the entirety of the space in which our bubble exists.
And we haven't even touched on which "infinity" we're talking about! 
Aleph number - Wikipedia[^]
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
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Richard Deeming wrote: Since we can't even see beyond our "tiny" little 91 billion...
And this was actually my entire point. No way to know.
Except, most "scientists" and mathematicians believe there is a limit to everything (energy) -- except philosophical debates.
And if what you say is right then why so much confidence in what Stephen Hawking or Brian Greene or Michio Kaku say? I know as much as they do.
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raddevus wrote: And if what you say is right then why so much confidence in what Stephen Hawking or Brian Greene or Michio Kaku say? I know as much as they do.
Yes, but they know some extremely long technical words they can use to explain it!
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined."
- Homer
modified 16-Jun-17 14:18pm.
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