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One of the things I really hated about windows 8 was that it was designed for a tablet, and they forgot that people with PCs have big screens and maybe multiple screens and do not want the application to take over the whole window. How stupid can those people at Microsoft be. Well tells me something about Ballmer to give us that horror. They also keep moving things, and making it hard for people. I still think the move to the Ribbon was done horribly. Really just a fancy tool window. Funny I keep seeing menus on web pages. Guess they are more useful than Microsoft thought. Again what can I say about Ballmer. He was also the one in charge when they basically killed both Silverlight and WPF.
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Clifford Nelson wrote: I still think the move to the Ribbon was done horribly
If I was given a chance to rid the world of the Metro Modern Flavor of the Week UI, at the cost of having to bring back the Ribbon menus...I'd say good riddance to Metro.
Seriously, it took us how long to go from mono, then CGA, EGA, VGA and get to 32-bit color and 1080p displays to get standardized, and now somebody's decided everything should be huge and monochromatic?
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Yes Metro was another stupid decision, and you are right. It looked horrible. I liked that about the time Microsoft came out with Metro, everybody else was going away from it because they finally could.
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Clifford Nelson wrote: It looked horrible
Why the past tense? It still does.
Clifford Nelson wrote: everybody else was going away from it because they finally could.
Are you sure about that?
I remember at the time iOS 7 came out, people were complaining that Apple was dumping its long-established gaudy faux-leather/brushed aluminum/everything shiny look they had been using forever and was adopting the "simplified"/flattened look that was just starting to become common back then (roughly Win8's introduction timeframe).
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I complete;y agree, except for..
Clifford Nelson wrote: when they basically killed both Silverlight and WPF
WPF is far from dead. it's thriving and will continue to do so.
If it's not broken, fix it until it is.
Everything makes sense in someone's mind.
Ya can't fix stupid.
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That is true, but not because of Microsoft. WinForms is also still thriving and will continue to do so. Have not done anything significant updates to either in a long time.
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I really liked Windows 8.1 and still like it more than Windows 10, but the future marches on and so will I. It really isn't bad and to quote my even more [that I] cynical 25-year-old son "people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change."
(The Window 10 build from February was a big improvement over the original. The anniversary edition had some issues, but fixed some other things. Subsequent patches have worked well. Video Drivers and Flash generally remain the most destabilizing aspects, though lately it's been the latest release of World of Tanks!)
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Joe Woodbury wrote: people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change
Exactly! And refusing to change just means we fall behind.
Jeremy Falcon
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Joe Woodbury wrote: "people who don't upgrade are just afraid of change."
That really is the most ridiculous argument.
Some of us have been in this business for over thirty years, and our working lives have been one glorious upgrade after another.
We Welcome upgrades! It's been our life to welcome upgrades! That's how we've lived, over the years!
What ms has done to the UI and UX over the past few years has not been upgrading; it's been just one completely stupid and pointless change after another.
The effluent interface? That's supposed to be more efficient and easier to use than the extant menus and toolbars?
Is it bollocks.
The baby-block "Start" is supposed to be more usable and intuitive than the Start menu?
Is it bollocks.
Invisibly clickable words are supposed to be easier to use than straight-forward buttons and highlighted text?
Are they bollocks.
Full-screen "apps" are supposed to be better than windows?
Are they bollocks.
Windows without distinctive title bars and borders are supposed to be easier to work with than windows where you can see where one window ends and the next one begins are supposed to make life easier?
Do they bollocks.
Etc.
Instead of fixing the thousands of little things that caused minor problems to their users, they seem to be going out of their way to introduce a sh1tload of major problems on top of the minor problems that are still there.
I'd pay a thousand for a windows update that said "Hey, it might not look like we've done much, but we've fixed all the little things that were annoying everyone!"
Being an OS that fixed nothing, but just introduced new problems, winio was hugely overpriced at free.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
modified 22-Sep-16 16:15pm.
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Your reasons are entirely superficial.
The humorous thing is that I heard a very similar list of complaints with Windows 98, XP and Seven. Man did people hate Windows 7 when it first came out.
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Joe Woodbury wrote: Your reasons are entirely superficial.
Are they bollocks.
Respond to each point, if that's the case.
0. Tell me how the effluent interface is better than menus and toolbars.
1. Tell me how the baby-blocks "Start" is more usable and intuitive than the Start menu.
2. Tell me how invisibly clickable words are easier to use than straight-forward buttons and highlighted text.
3. Tell me how full-screen "apps" are better than windows.
4. Tell me how windows without distinctive title bars and borders are easier to work with than windows where you can see where one window ends and the next one begins
The argument "Oh, you're just being superficial" isn't an argument, it's either troll talk or marketing talk.
Either way, you're making yourself look very bad.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Your points are about entirely subjective things. I resisted Windows 8 because of the start menu and dropping Aero. Then I started using it just before 8.1 was released. To my surprise, I liked the start screen and didn't miss Aero. To the point where I found going back to Windows 7 annoying. I still do.
Horror of horrors I've even adjusted to using the ribbon and have even found that on some apps, like Windows Explorer, it's a genuine improvement.
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Are you suggesting subjective opinions don't count? In my view, whilst W10 gives good performance on (my) old hardware, its UI is horribly unintuitive - for just one example, how do you feel about scroll bars that disappear after a few seconds? Weeks before the launch in 2015, I left comments on the Insider Feedback 'thingy' expressing my amazement that MS had so little time left to fix some of the more egregious features - and they are still with us over a year later.
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Um why do you want to 'see' the scroll bar if you are not using it? You know it is still there so what is the problem?
My Mrs styles herself Annie O'Luddite. You would probably get on well with her. 
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TheComputerMan wrote: Um why do you want to 'see' the scroll bar if you are not using it? You know it is still there so what is the problem?
I should not rise to the bait, but in case your question was serious, and you have not experienced what it's like to use (or not use)...
A fairly well known way of 'using' the scroll bar is to sit the mouse cursor in the area below the bar, and click to go down by a screenful - then read the page, and click again (with no mouse movement required) when ready for the next screen. Once the scroll bar has disappeared, clicking does nothing, and one has to move the mouse (but not too far, mind) to make it appear again. This is just silly. It seems obvious the screen behaviour was tailored for touch use, with no thought given to mousers.
BTW, I might ask: why hide the scroll bar when there is nothing 'behind' it to see?
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Are you seriously arguing this?
When something is subjective, it means you can't prove it's better. That's all.
mngerhold wrote: how do you feel about scroll bars that disappear after a few seconds?
I think it's great. Which proves nothing. Or are you suggesting that the only opinion that counts is your own? Seems that's the attitude on this thread.
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Yup, some of us have been in this business over 30 years, including me, and some of us have moved with the times. Frankly I would not still wish to be using ANSI Basic 1.0 or MASM 1.0
Sounds like with all the moans about "Start" you should use Classic Shell, or is that a tad too modern for you? 
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den2k88 wrote: I knew Win 8 sucked so I didn't upgrade - and I informed myself on the equipment compatible with Win 7 before buying new PCs.
I know Win10 sucks hard so I won't upgrade to it - again I'll keep my Win7 until the hardware will be supported. If a version of VS needs Win10 I won't buy it - I don't code at home, and at work the responsibility for my platform isn't mine, nor the management of my time.
Until the next one... after all I used WinXP at home up until 2012 and at work until 2016, with negligible problems on either software or games. So... if it sucks it remains there on the shelf.
Yes Windows "evolution" remindes me of the old tale "The Emporer's New Clothes". The words "sheep' and "mass hypnosis" come to mind. I can only suspect that people that like W10 are
1.) simply bored and are adicted to constant change for change sake.
2.) don't actually do anything with their computers
I have nothing but problems with it. Yes it does boot faster but so what? Uh...what else? Oh yes lets us make cosmetic change to our programs and resll them as "new improved" version. What a racket!
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I've been a Windows die hard since 1.3 (yeah for real)... But I have to say that I'm seriously considering a different route for my personal use anymore. The evil empire has allured me and with w/10's unruly auto update schedule I am really seriously considering biting the bullet and getting an iMac and putting a VM up for what windows apps I need to run at home (should there be any after the shake out).
So while all my Windows boxes at the house now run 10 (3 of them) today, I feel your pain. And I am a bit disillusioned with MS current offering and where they seem to be going.
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I have used Windows 8 and now use windows 10 with no issues.
I us it mostly for programming but am quite happy.
Make sure your hardware up to date and I think you would be happy.
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Roger165 wrote: Make sure your hardware up to date and I think you would be happy.
I definetely would be... I'd be glad even having the money for it. My current Pc is a 5.5 years old laptop so there's no room to improve.
Next PC will be a self assembled desktop and I'll still put a Win7 on it except in the case some hw won't be compatible - highly improbable though.
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Pitiful soul. Go ahead and stay with Windows XP for another five years then. Good for ya.
I updated all my devices to windows 10 since last year, FYI. And I didn't encounter any of the problem you mentioned.
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At work we are still forced to keep XP since we have to support machines that costs more than a house for the next years - we also have some Win2k VMs because we sold it on our machines until 2008.
And Win7 created a lot of problems in the beginning due to the myriad useless services it has that raise CPU/disk usage periodically and screws up our SW, which has to control hardware AND do heavy weight elaborations in real time. Windows 8 has been tried and dumped due to the ridiculous slowdowns it causes in the execution of the software - they were not there with XP, which we would have kept if not to comply with some BIG customer random IT policy (the machine is for all accounts an embedded piece of hardware so it should not be considered a workstation).
GCS d--- s-/++ a- C++++ U+++ P- L- E-- W++ N++ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t++ 5? X R++ tv-- b+ DI+++ D++ G e++>+++ h--- ++>+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
If you think 'goto' is evil, try writing an Assembly program without JMP. -- TNCaver
When I was six, there were no ones and zeroes - only zeroes. And not all of them worked. -- Ravi Bhavnani
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Services can be turned off at will though... In all Windows version.
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