|
With a little focus, you should be able to spend so much time learning the multitude of new technologies that you never become employable 
My long term goal is to live forever. So far, so good...
|
|
|
|
|
Frank Alviani wrote: you should be able to spend so much time learning the multitude of new technologies that you never become employable
Aye, ain't that the truth.
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
The very reason I hate web development.
So I recently quit my web development job and took a job programming Microsoft Dynamics AX - seemed perfect for a Windows guy like me.
And what happens then: Microsoft announces that starting from the next version of AX, they will quit the Windows GUI and only use the web GUI
Thanks so elephanting much! 
Hope that Kevin is right and mobile is just a fad... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
-
The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
-
I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
|
|
|
|
|
Exactly. Jack of all trades but master of none.
|
|
|
|
|
Kelly Marchewa wrote: Do you think ASP.NET has a bright future? Why or why not?
I think it's mostly an irrelevant question. The back-end does what the back-end does, handle requests, interface to the DB, serve pages, etc. I probably spend less than 10% of my time working on the back-end, regardless of what technology I use. The remaining 90% is spent f***ing around with HTML and CSS, the oddities of bootstrap, the incomprehensibility of backbone (or whatever your favorite Javascript MVC poison is), and the bullshit of trying to get a web page to render on a dozen different browsers and their versions, tablets, phones, and so forth.
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
I don't believe that makes it an irrelevant question at all. I think ASP.NET has a great future as a 'backend', i.e. handling requests: session, cookies, authorization, caching etc. Web Forms and MVC are (well, Web Forms maybe[1]) are quite a small part of ASP.NET.
[1] That elephanting ugly viewstate model makes everything so easy, we just reconstitute our controls and render them.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. - Liber AL vel Legis 1:40, Aleister Crowley
|
|
|
|
|
Brady Kelly wrote: I think ASP.NET has a great future as a 'backend'
Certainly, but there's many options out there, many not .NET solutions, and even I prefer my own server implementation rather than using ASP.NET or Razor/MVC.
Pure ASP.NET though, I find horribly klunky actually. Well, at least the projects I've worked on that used it. Maybe the folks who originally wrote the back-end didn't know what they were doing. Strike that, they definitely didn't know what they were doing (I've seen some SQL statements in the friggin' HTML!)
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
|
Marc Clifton wrote: I think it's mostly an irrelevant question.
I beg to differ. I do almost no front-end work besides javascript (JQuery, Angular, et al). We have a team that develops HTML and CSS work and UI designs. I just make the interface work. And choosing a good backend to work with matters, a lot.
Complex business logic do not happen on the front-end, it happens on the business layer. Having a good framework that integrates well with a business layer you're comfortable with (like .net) can make all the difference in productivity.
Web API, ASP.Net MVC works ton towards productivity.
It's a great choice to me.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
|
|
|
|
|
Fabio Franco wrote: We have a team that develops HTML and CSS work and UI designs.
You are SO lucky. The vast majority of projects I've worked on, us devs have had to that work.
Riddikulos![^]
Marc
|
|
|
|
|
Marc Clifton wrote: You are SO lucky.
I guess I am, if not me web apps would all look like winforms apps. 
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson
Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
|
|
|
|
|
I had to chuckle when I read Marc's comments. He hit it on the nose. As a web developer you spend most of your time "f**cking around" with the web UI piece. Hours just roll by when working with UI. The back-end is pretty straight-forward.
I do love ASP.NET MVC. It's the way to go and I believe it'll be around for many years. I've tried the "other" framework architectures and languages out there, but ASP.NET MVC is the best.
|
|
|
|
|
This is going to sound positively Jurassic, but I still prefer ASPNET WebForms over MVC. Sure MVC works great with all these flashy frontend Javascript frameworks but losing all those canned WebControls that come built into WebForms makes everything so much more tedious and cumbersome. I understand everyone wants Ajax and asynchronous partial POSTs and all that but there's something empowering about being able to roll up a web solution just as quickly as a desktop solution when using WebForms that is very hard for some of us ASPNET old timers to let go of.
|
|
|
|
|
Exactly. First make it work, then make it pretty...
I may not last forever but the mess I leave behind certainly will.
|
|
|
|
|
Do you think the internet has a future? Do you think Microsoft has a future?
|
|
|
|
|
It has a future, but it's moving towards using more of the Web API and then writing a Web frontend on top of it. Which, when you look at it that way, isn't really very different from most other common platforms.
The latest version of MVC that is coming out is really pushing this API backend with a general HTML/CSS/JavaScript frontend. So, yes, it has a future and is relevant. This is exactly how I've been using it for a while now, haven't even written any Razor code in a couple of years.
Things like Webforms don't really translate too well, but I have been working with .NET for 8 years and never once worked on a Webforms project. It's really not necessary to spend too much time learning it, unless the company you want to work for specifically asks for it.
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone - Bjarne Stroustrup
The world is going to laugh at you anyway, might as well crack the 1st joke!
My code has no bugs, it runs exactly as it was written.
|
|
|
|
|
Count yourself as lucky. I've had to patch a few of our web forms projects, and the horrible coding practice seems to be the webforms bread and butter.
|
|
|
|
|
Oh, I've had plenty of horrible code thrown at me that I've had to fix/maintain even without Webforms!  
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone - Bjarne Stroustrup
The world is going to laugh at you anyway, might as well crack the 1st joke!
My code has no bugs, it runs exactly as it was written.
|
|
|
|
|
I have been in the Microsoft development game for a few years now.
I personally think it does have a future, with Microsoft investing in the next version of ASP.net (VNext) and making strides in allowing for the deployment of ASP.Net applications to different types of containers via Katana and OWIN, the fact I can run an MVC application within a threaded process without the use off IIS is a big win and as a result of this I think we will see ASP.Net for a long time.
But as Frank said it is important that you spend time in learning a multitude of technologies as it will serve you well in the future.
|
|
|
|
|
Kelly Marchewa wrote: Do you think ASP.NET has a bright future? Why or why not?
This is the question every developer should ask themselves, every time they look at a new technology. "Is this worth learning?"
Like many others, I've been doing this for nigh on 30 years. I look at old resumes and see technologies that no longer exist, things I've mostly forgotten about. I've learned dead-end technologies (Object/1, anyone?) and things that still live on FAR past their expected lifespan (Visual Basic 6 still lives in VBA). I learned to pay attention to things like market share, and focus on technologies that I think will keep me employed.
To answer the actual question: Yes, ASP.NET has a future. It's been around in various forms for 20 years, and the current market share is currently great. Google "market share asp.net" -- ya gotta take what you find with a 5# bag of salt, but everything I've found indicates ASP.NET market share is solid - 15% to 30% of the backend market. Lot of large companies have significant investments in this technology, so it will be around for years to come.
How long? Sorry, my crystal ball is foggy. Nothing lasts forever, so plan on learning new technologies on a regular basis. You've got PHP? That's great! It supposedly powers 70% of the internet. I'm playing with it now.
IMO learn: C#, ASP.NET, CSS, HTML5. These technologies all currently have good market share and will give you a diverse background that will help you in future years when no one remembers how to spell "ASP". 
|
|
|
|
|
I will teach my kids to do same thing in ten ways.
Knowing different roads to your destination makes you "the fast Guy".
|
|
|
|
|
My answer is that you are fine.
First, they are open sourcing it so it runs on Linux (Think Cloud Hosting).
Second, they have put a lot into it.
But buyer beware. The one thing I hated about MSFT was their incessant disposing and breaking of old technology. A few years ago, I had to upgrade a Delphi 5 application -> Delphi XE2. The files imported, I had to install a couple of components. And recompiled. No issues.
In the MSFT world, we had a C++ library. It was 32 Bit. It would not compile to 16 bit, because MSFT refused to implement some of the same language features, they wanted to discourage 16 bit usage. And it keeps happening. I tried to open a Visual Studio project from 10 years ago. Yeah Right, the new VS would not touch it!
Some of our software has been around since the 1980s. And when it is ultra-specialized, it will stay around. Our fallback is that nowadays we create a VM capable of of recompiling everything, and park it for the future. But there is plenty of VB6 code that you are not going to be able to recompile in any recent version of VS, and get this. The old version of VS has BLOCKS to prevent it from being installed in NEWER OSes. Pure Joy!
So, I think if you write good code you are safe. But REALLY consider how you will support all the stuff you do if it lives a lot longer than you expected!
And understand that WHATEVER technology you use, MSFT will likely throw away and push you into newer technology (We have some WinCE code that will have to be completely rewritten if they change the hardware)
|
|
|
|
|
I have been in your shoes, and I went php cause for one, most if not 90% of hosting co. are linux only. They are cheaper than asp.net to host. Most open source cms are php based. The web is everything but asp.net. If you want to develop solution for the big corp. then ok, they have the money to host thir site on their promises.
I have been programming MS (QBasic, VB and all) for 15 years, and now php for 10. No regrets.
|
|
|
|
|
I don't really have much to add to what's already been said, except to say that at 58 years old, I've been asking myself what I ought to be learning since I first started earning my daily bread as an embedded programmer in 1987.
I've endured (yes, endured is completely apt) many technological paradigm revolutions in that time; that includes changes to tools and methodologies.
I've resisted the temptation to get off the treadmill and go into management because I still love what I do.
Today I am pretty much a Jack-of-all-trades. On any given day I can move from Java using Eclipse and NetBeans, to C++, C#, and ASP.NET (C#) in Visual Studio, to Pascal in Delphi, to JSP, SOAP, BIRT, COM objects... the list is endless it seems.
I've paid a price. The expression, "Jack-of-all-trades, master of none" is, again, completely apt. I feel at times like I just know enough to be dangerous - though, thankfully, I've never killed anyone (my embedded work was in life safety systems - fire alarms).
All I've ever relied on to sustain professional relevance are an open mind, open eyes, and a continuing enjoyment of learning.
I don't like to give advice, but I would say, consider what interests you first, dive in and learn, but mostly Just Do It - there's no substitute for losing all track of time and seeing something really remarkable come to life - even if it isn't "the best" implementation.
I've known and worked with many very smart people who have challenged me and become dear friends. They have been the icing on the cake.
Do what you love, and you never have to work a day in your life!
Cheers,
Mike Fidler
"I intend to live forever - so far, so good." Steven Wright
"I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." Also Steven Wright
"I'm addicted to placebos. I could quit, but it wouldn't matter." Steven Wright yet again.
|
|
|
|
|
Though I have worked with Microsoft .NET since 2001, the more recent additions to the ASP.NET development paradigm such as MVC and a host of JavaScript, CSS libraries and frameworks appear to be bludgeoning the original concept to death.
I still work strictly in ASP.WEB WebForms because I find the paradigm straight-forward with good performance even for complex, database projects. However, I spend most of my time with WPF as it is a much more stable environment than web development.
I have worked with MVC on a very complex and large project a few years ago and found the excessive detail to be hindrance to productivity. However, the project from a technical standpoint was quite successful.
The original ASP.NET WebForms, in my view, is the best approach to web development that I have seen and still remains a very strong, mature solution to practically all web application requirements.
That being said, ASP.NET WebForms is definitely not "cool" and has little to offer in terms of the radical and low-level approaches that the newer web development paradigms are currently offering.
If you have been working with PHP than you are already used to working in an environment that is quite similar to "Classic ASP". As a result, you shouldn't have that much difficulty in coming up to speed with with ASP.NET MVC.
As it regards the future of ASP.NET, for now MVC is the preponderant paradigm being used by most .NET developers. However, software paradigms go in cycles every 5 to 10 years. We are now in the 6th year of ASP.NET MVC and there are already symptoms of the pendulum swinging back to ASP.NET WebForms as increasingly more and more features are being added to the MVC side of things including some that appear to be somewhat similar to ASP.NET's server controls.
For now stick with the MVC route but keep an eye on WebForms. After 42 years in the corporate environments I have seen it all and MVC is simply too complex to produce good work in complex environments since it only adds to the complexities already involved. As a result, I suspect that many developers will eventually tire of having to learn so many different technologies that support MVC as new tools appear to be surfacing on a near daily basis making a confused landscape even more confusing...
Steve Naidamast
Sr. Software Engineer
Black Falcon Software, Inc.
blackfalconsoftware@outlook.com
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
