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kmoorevs wrote: I understand that updates are necessary but aggravating nonetheless!
Only aggravating when "there's an app for that".
<rant>
I believe sometime last century it was realized that writing platform specific applications was going to be an impossible task with the proliferation of devices available for presentation.
I believe one of our more vocal members recently expressed circumspection about web development.
Then again it is the dinosaurs that make policy and cannot get out of the rut in which they find themselves.
</rant>
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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So we programmers aren't known for our good estimates.
"How long will it take?"
"A few hours"
*Couple of days later*
"Just a few more hours"
Well, I guess you all know how it goes.
My gardener did a great job too...
I asked him to do my garden and then I asked an estimate for the costs.
I just got an actual price indication and it's more than two times as high as his estimate!
We're talking thousands of euro's here and his estimate is thousands off!
Oh yeah, I got it a month after he said I'd have it too.
It's particularly bad since he did more gardens in this neighborhood and all gardens are more or less the same size...
Perhaps he should take a job in IT? 
Anyway, no way I'm paying that much for a simple garden 
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Sander Rossel wrote: So we programmers aren't known for our good estimates.
That is why they are called 'estimate' and not 'predictions'. Now, personally, I would not want to estimate on the amount of time it takes to shoot a bear.
Sander Rossel wrote: It's particularly bad since he did more gardens in this neighborhood and all
gardens are more or less the same size...
"You did six forms in two days last time, why does it take so long to build SkyNet in a single form?"
Sander Rossel wrote: We're talking thousands of euro's here and his estimate is thousands off!
Where is this garden of yours, and what did you want done?
Heck, I can piss on some flowers and I bet I can sell the weed here on the market 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Where is this garden of yours, and what did you want done?
Actually my 'garden' is nothing more than a big pool of mud at the moment
So I was thinking a little path to the back, some grass, a fence, nothing to fancy...
It's about 5,5m wide and 14m deep.
And I'm guessing a garden, especially a simple one, has a lot less variables as software. Especially when you know the area.
So a cost estimate should be pretty spot on.
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The cost is not in the size of the canvas, but rather the controls on it. Grass is a good filler, and there's probably a cheaper fence.
What is the time-frame agreed upon? How much would it cost, measured in FTE's?
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Sander Rossel wrote: we programmers aren't known for our good estimates
Good estimates usually cause management to cut them so that there is no chance of getting the task completed in time.
I remember, many years ago, a manager asked for an estimate for three modules and I said two weeks. They were small modules.
He said that was unacceptable and that I should have them finished in a week.
I said why not make it three days because they are not going to be functional in that time frame anyway.
He got the point and gave me two weeks.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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tried the same thing once, but ended up having to do it in 2 days instead of one week, manager wasn't very competent 
Life's like a nose, you've got to get out of it whats in it!
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Stefto wrote: tried the same thing once, but ended up having to do it in 2 days instead of one week
Well then I just would have told him after 2 days that it wasn't finished and that it would take another 3 days.
I always send an email stating what was said which would have read that I need a week and there is no way that I can get it complete in 2 days like he wants.
If he insists that it can be done in 2 days then he should assign it to someone else because I will need a week.
Stefto wrote: manager wasn't very competent
Either was this fellow, but if you give in and work extraordinary hours to get it done in 2 days he will want you to do it all the time.
On a day by day basis I would tell him I have a doctors appointment, a dentist appointment, have to take my Mom to the doctor the next day, etc., so I can not stay after normal business hours that day.
Never would I be pressured to work extraordinary hours for an incompetent estimate that is less than what I need to do the job.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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you, sir deserve a medal
Life's like a nose, you've got to get out of it whats in it!
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Not really. When I first started out I allowed myself to be bullied.
After a number of years, and many managers - good and bad - I realized that there was no need for heroics.
Do a good job and don't allow yourself to be bullied. Your manager will respect you for it.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
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Combining the imprint of all these minuscule distortions, the new map shows exactly where dark matter is concentrated within this particular patch of sky.
I told that damn shrink he was looking in the wrong place. 
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site.
When you are dead you don't know it, it's only difficult for others.
It's the same when you're stupid.
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I wonder how long before Google includes this data in Google Maps? 
I wonder how long after that before the EU accuses Google of showing their dark matter data first before other people's dark matter data?
Contrary to popular belief, nobody owes you anything.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Google Universe 1.0?
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site.
When you are dead you don't know it, it's only difficult for others.
It's the same when you're stupid.
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Mike Hankey wrote: Google Universe 1.0? beta
They want you to test it for them first!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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It'll be a big job better get started...tomorrow!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site.
When you are dead you don't know it, it's only difficult for others.
It's the same when you're stupid.
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I really don't want to see your dark matter, nor have a map to where it resides.
#SupportHeForShe If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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They say once you try dark matter, you never go back.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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That's what they say, never went there myself.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site.
When you are dead you don't know it, it's only difficult for others.
It's the same when you're stupid.
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It doesn't matter.[^]
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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That was my sig for a while, a while back!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.1 new web site.
When you are dead you don't know it, it's only difficult for others.
It's the same when you're stupid.
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Mike Hankey wrote: where dark matter is concentrated within this particular patch of sky.
There's patches in the sky.
(Bonus points for the quote origin)
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't. — Lyall Watson
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Has he who laughs last just made a another back-up?
(I'm feeling topical today)
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
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I will laugh at end to see if there is back-up file generated. 
The sh*t I complain about
It's like there ain't a cloud in the sky and it's raining out - Eminem
~! Firewall !~
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He who laughs last thinks slowest.
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Sander Rossel wrote: He who laughs last thinks slowest.
I don't get it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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