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Yeah I agree electronics has come a long way and with the Chinese producing everything for nothing we are becoming an endangered species. But I still love to do it!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0
My goal in life is to have a psychiatric disorder named after me.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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And just today I ran out of Tandy heat sink compound.
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I hate that when it happens.
It's something you don't need often but when you need it, you need it!
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0
My goal in life is to have a psychiatric disorder named after me.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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Why? Through-hole parts are still available reasonably priced.
But anyway.
I use SMT parts on perfboards for trying out circuits all the time.
1206 resistors & caps are *huge*, even if tweezers are needed to solder that, even beginners should have no trouble using them or 0805 parts, which fit exactly between two copper pads with 0.1" spacing.
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I thought of upgrading my old computer from 4k RAM to 16 mb, using 628512 static RAMs[^].
Using SMD versions would save a lot of space and I would get the expansion done on a single board, but soldering so many tiny connections appears to be a huge pain.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
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What "old computer" that came with 4Kbytes can be made using 16Mbytes? And with 32x 512KB modules?
*scratches head*
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One of those.[^] Mine, just like the one on the picture, still has some expansion slots free.
The addressing logic will expand the address bus with an 8 bit latch to access up to 256 64k pages. And it has to be static RAM since I don't have any reliable DRAM controller. Also, this particular SRAM is still easy to get, is inexpensive and also still works fine with a 5v power supply.
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
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Looks nice  Never heard of it.
But what the heck would that thing do with all that Memory?
Well. Have you soldered SMT before?
The SO package is just 1/2 of the usual 0.1" pin spacing, if you're really bored you could even get that on perfboard, splitting pads - but I guess you wouldn't want to handwire that mess then Entirely possible with thin "coil wire", but pretty dull work.
Do you have a PCB layout program?
If not, or you hate the one you have - try the lite version of DipTrace (and if you mail them confirming this is for non-Profit use, you'll get a code to up the pin limit from 300 to 500 per board). If you tried EAGLE and hate it - welcome aboard, try DipTrace 
As said, SO package is a piece of cake, also not so painful routing wise when you have only two layers (max of what free diptrace supports). But if you don't have many traces crossing due to clever placement, rotating & layout, maybe you'd even manage smaller packages with 2 layers.
The soldering of smaller packages is done differently from the big ones. You don't usually solder individual Pins, but several pins at a time, or even all in one drag movement. Look on YouTube for tutorials on "drag soldering SMT".
Rule 1) apply lots of flux, Rule 2) don't forget to add some more flux! ("no-clean" flux, if you don't want a mess) If you still accidentally create a solder bridge between pins, this can be removed with fine solder wig and - flux!
I'd not recommend putting a blob of solder, bridging lots of pins "on purpose" and then removing surplus with wig, though. Some ppl do that as it seems easier than practising drag solder or soldering ~3 pins at a time with a usual chisel tip (my preferred) - but more mass of hot metal means increased likelyhood of killing the IC.
For drag soldering & generally doing fine pitched stuff to work, you need to do your PCB with a solder mask layer (usually created by the CAD Software, but parameters Need to be adjusted to design rules of PCB manufacturer)
Then oshpark makes good quality PCBs, for 2-layer I think it's $ US 5,- per square inch, for 3 PCBs of that design. So smaller is cheaper, and since with those many same ICs you probably have quite some repetition in circuit, the "3 PCBs of 1 design" may be exploited nicely, when several identical smaller boards are made, maybe then pluggin into a main board that connects to your computer.
(if that "3 PCBs" rule bothers you, I don't know international PCB fabbers with good price, sorry)
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unshavenbastard wrote: Looks nice Never heard of it.
It's my first computer and it still works. I doubt there are more than 1000 still left on the entire world.
unshavenbastard wrote: But what the heck would that thing do with all that Memory?
I just cut the memory size in half. Let's switch between 256 pages of 32k (= 8 Mb). This way I have enough real address space left for video memory, I/O or ROM. It would be very wise to do the page switching from a memory location that is not being switched, like a ROM.
Anyway, I still enjoy writing code for the old dog. Memory used to be the biggest constraint, but that will change then. 
unshavenbastard wrote: Do you have a PCB layout program?
Yes. Eagle. I don't hate it, but the restriction to only very small boards makes it practically unusable.
Actually, I have been pregnat with the idea to leave the old computer as it is and build a more modern little computer into a small PC case. I already have a main bus with 10 slots and designed a CPU board. The memory board will not be much work and then I will need an IO board and some kind of suitable graphics card. I may still have an old MC6847 graphics chip somewhere...
The language is JavaScript. that of Mordor, which I will not utter here
This is Javascript. If you put big wheels and a racing stripe on a golf cart, it's still a f***ing golf cart.
"I don't know, extraterrestrial?"
"You mean like from space?"
"No, from Canada."
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" the restriction to only very small boards makes it practically unusable."
Yeah, the pincount restriction of diptrace is much more sensible than an area restriction.
I have no idea what you plan to program for that machine, but to me 256K..1024K already seem very generous for that machine. Maybe you could design your bank switching scheme such that it is expandable with more mini boards of 256..1024K, and you try first with one and see whether it's enough - don't have to solder everything until you know it's needed.
You could, at startup, detect the presence of each possible module by writing/reading back a bit pattern to the highest address byte or so, to know how much is installed.
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unshavenbastard wrote: But what the heck would that thing do with all that Memory?
Reminds me when they brought in a PC with 10 MB of storage. I had such contempt for it since I was using "powerful" mainframes at the time, that I wondered what you could stick in it that would take up 10 MB of storage. (32KB of memory) Of course if you typed 1 character a second 24 hours a day for a year, you are talking about 31MB.
A couple of days ago, I noticed I had transferred 3.3GB in 3 days on the web and I hadn't a clue what all it was that I used it for. (Of course a substantial part had to be images.)
PS You can't do much about the second part of your moniker but a razor should be able to fix the first part. (Said the guy who hasn't shaved in three days.)
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He had to mean 16KB. Max memory per the cited article is 64KB.
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That comment is way off the mark. These days electronic hobbyists are just called Makers and then there is Arduino. Radio Shack had a poor business model for retailing. They are agreat example of a company not able to adjust to the changes the internet made in how people shop for cheap electronics.
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When was that? Since they carried nothing but crap since I started going there about 1972, it must have been a real long time ago. In college we called Radio Shack diodes, 'monodes', since current went in one end and never came out. They were handy for CB radio supplies, but god help you if you had a question. I used to hang out just to listen to all the blatantly wrong information they gave out to folks even more ignorant than the employees. The I'd tell the customer what the correct answer was and get glared at by the moron who got paid to give wrong information. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
Will Rogers never met me.
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I used to get mainly small parts and never really had a problem with them, but I'm not an RR just a wannabe. They do sell crap though I won't argue with you there.
Roger Wright wrote: I used to hang out just to listen to all the blatantly wrong information they gave out to folks even more ignorant than the employees. The I'd tell the customer what the correct answer was and get glared at by the moron who got paid to give wrong information. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
You got that right, on the rare occasion I used to get roped into shopping at the mall with the ex I used to go in the RS there and just listen to their spiel. Don't know how they kept the floors so clear with the line of crap they layed down.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.1.0
My goal in life is to have a psychiatric disorder named after me.
I'm currently unsupervised, I know it freaks me out too but the possibilities are endless.
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At 94 years in business they started out selling light bulbs.
Once you lose your pride the rest is easy.
In the end, only three things matter: how much you loved, how gently you lived, and how gracefully you let go of things not meant for you. – Buddha
Simply Elegant Designs Jim<</xml>
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No tears here. If you want some cheap entertainment, go to a Radio Shack and ask a question about radio.
I tried to get a job there once, years ago. They told me that they didn't want anyone who knows electronics; they only want people with audio & video sales experience. What a joke that place has been since they stopped selling vacuum tubes...
Will Rogers never met me.
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Roger Wright wrote: They told me that they didn't want anyone who knows electronics; they only want people with audio & video sales experience.
Well that was just that particular store manager. When I was working on my hobby robots many years ago, and I used to go into Radio Shack to get parts, the manager there kept trying to hire me.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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They (as Tandy) disappeared from the UK in about 2001
=========================================================
I'm an optoholic - my glass is always half full of vodka.
=========================================================
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Chapter 11 doesn't mean the end of the company. It's a legal mechanism under which a company that's in financial difficulty can recover. The airlines and the automotive industry have been doing it regularly for years. On a smaller scale, the company I work for did it three years ago.
It's traumatic for the employees, customers, and creditors involved, but it's better than the Chapter 7 alternative: break the company up and sell off the parts. In that case the employees rarely get any kind of separation package, customers are left in the lurch for support, and the creditors get pennies on the dollar, if that.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Apparently Sprint is looking to buy Radio Shack, or at least thinking about it. The Shack would probably turn from what it has historically been to just another place hawking cell phones (not that it doesn't already). Strange that a somewhat failing cell phone company is looking to buy a failing electronics chain.
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The last time I went into our local Radio Shack, a couple of years ago, it seemed like all they had to sell were cell phones and cheesy knockoff electronic toys. They had a little bit in the way of home audio/video cabling stuff. There wasn't much in the way of hobbyist electronics supplies.
<OldFartMoment>
I remember getting the new Radio Shack catalog every year and drooling over the goodies  .
</OldFartMoment>
Software Zen: delete this;
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Online stores will gradually replace all traditional ones except groceries.
TOMZ_KV
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Tomz_KV wrote: except groceries.
Amazon[^] begs to differ with that remark.
(I know. Really, Amazon?)
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
---
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
---
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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