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Hi. greeting to all!!!
First, I must be clear in some points:
- I will not show % or certified data, this is my personal feeling from all I know. (real life)
- This "article" is planed to thing outside a country and mostly worldwide (that mean we don't live in USA)
- I will not talk about which Win version is better or why Win8 sucks or whatever about the OS versions.
- Sorry for my english is not as good, and it gets worst when I get emotional!
Here I go, after reading a lot of reports and articles from CodeProject and other sources looks like everybody wants us to change from WinXP to Win7 or Win8... a lot of those articles seems surprised because more that 30% of the world is still using WinXP, and as much as I read I feel like those articles are just to scare and force people to buy new hardware and new software...
You probably will be asking why not updating to new technology? I will tell you why you want to update if you are just browsing the web or just creating documents, Mozilla and Word97 are still usable for this purpose and also they work better that new technologies that just seems to be abusing and eating resources? (Why should I need Internet and one online account when I just want to write and print an small letter?)
Security? no, you don't need that kind of extreme security level when you are in a small businesses or even in you home pc were your mother barely check Facebook, all you need is a good Firewall, a good antivirus and a good Internet browser.
To be honest I feel that only big companies (ones that could be targeted by hackers and malicious attacks) should be really worried about the need of this update!!!
Let see... those are examples of small business that I believe will never change they hardware and software (unless the hardware dies)
- Net Cafes: that place were you pay 1 dollar or less by hour just to browse internet for an hour...
- Small Companies: This is related to the company system they use and the amount of free money they can use, a company with 50 PCs, if they need to change all them, lets say 500 USD including the new Windows (and I'm not including Office) that means 25.000 USD just to be updated, but does this update means an increase in production? will they win more money thanks to this change, I think no, they will continue doing the same, and probably will also require to update the company specific software to new technology
- Home PCs: I only see 2 kind of people updating they PCs to the new windows: Gamers and Tec addicts (Metro developers, geeks, ...), My mother for sure doesn't need win8 to write documents in Office2000 (<-- notice how I'm playing with the Office version, at the end for casual user there is no real difference since Office97, just buttons changed color and form)
Everybody else will change only if they really need... and maybe that is my main point, when does you really need to change? If you are old enough (maybe 30 years old) you already know that some "improvements" in tech are more commercial than real enhancements. (today cellphones, video cards, CPUs...) I'm sure you don't need those SERVERS in your home!!!
Something else is that probably those Articles you see in Internet are more related to big business that to small business, for sure Companies like Google, Coca Cola, Intel and like they will want and need to be updated, but man, the "Maquila" that is 1 block from my home, I'm sure they are doing fine with all they old XP pcs!!!
I'm wondering if someone is preparing a good Security Package to support all those old win XP pcs:
- Firewall
- Antivirus, Antispyware, Antimallware
- Internet Browser
- OS Patches
Can you imagine billing 10USD annually by PC_, today the amount of XP machines are still over 30% that should be a huge income!!! (Bad, I don't have enough time, resources and knowledge about security)
Then in resume:
- Upgrade because is new technology is not applicable in all cases.
- Upgrading can be to expensive for some companies and due they type of work they barely need this update/
- Update because Security, not everybody need those security updates, there is still a lot of business that will live with just a nice antivirus
- Web World? all you need is a good Internet Browser, for this you don't need Win8 or better.
Don't update just because is the new Fashion, update because you need it!!!
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Well you are quite free to stay with Windows XP as long as you like. The only issue is that Microsoft no longer offer support for it.
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well, is not about if you like, is more about do you really need it? and in other cases, can you afford it?
if is about like I stay with Win7, Win8 has been painful with those side menus, for sure they are good in a cellphone but each time I slice my finger from right to left I got that contextual menu!!! man!! I hasn't been able to disable that feature!!!
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Member 4673202 wrote: well, is not about if you like, is more about do you really need it? and in other cases, can you afford it?
In the case of XP, since MS no longer support it and that means that newly revealed security weaknesses will no longer be addressed it's more a case of "can you afford not to?".
Would you use your credit cards on an XP machine happily? Because I wouldn't...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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probably no, but that is the case, those companies and homes pc I'm talking about are used just to navigate internet, check facebook, or create document, they don't do any kind of financial stuff...
so the security risk is low, the only problem they face are.. oh the PC or OS dies, lest format and reinstall our copy of XP again...
that is the context I'm talking about, and I know a lot of companies in this situation, they will not change unless the hardware dies.
So in resume you will change only if you really need it, if you require high security levels stay updated (of course, it must pass testing)
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Worth thinking about, a lot of Cash Points (ATM's) use XP (or XPe)...
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With the know bugs in open souyrce ssl code, would anyone use a creadit card at the moment,
regadles of OS or browser?
Security has over the internet, has little to do with the O/S versiopn, or
whether MS still supportsd it, Whih recent event show that MS still if presured to do so
will fix security issues with XP.
Its the nature of IT ppl to insist keeping updated, it's how they earn a liviing
As a deveolper, I'm more concerned about backward compatibilty, and keeping users/ family members happy andf productive.
I see no reason not to stick with XP, if thats what you want.
Just don't listen to anyone who tells you that you are at risk, becuse of security issues.
MS stopppoed producing new version of IE for XP a long time ago, as an incentive for ppl to
move to a newer windows. But I took it as in incentive to move to Chrome instead.
Don't get me wrong, I use Windows 7 as well, mainly as thin clients to acces VMWare.
But the real work horses are still XP VMs.
AS a small business, I simply cant afford the time, effort, or cost t invloved to upgrade, these VM from
XP to Win7.
Ther are lost of issue, I have investigated, and decided, I simply can't do it.
Sever hardwrae needs replacing.
Win 7 now longer has Outlook Express, (Live mail, not a real alternative)
My VMWARE V2 won't run win7 in console with crashing. (althouh RDP seems fine).
Apps I use on XP boxes, no longer available
and the list goes on...
So I agree wcom[pletly with you, and understand how this is causing you hi emotion.
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Member 4673202 wrote: Win8 has been painful with those side menus,
See this[^] post.
/ravi
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Member 4673202 wrote:
- I will not talk about which Win version is better or why Win8 sucks or whatever about the OS versions.
...
Win8 has been painful with those side menus, for sure they are good in a cellphone but each time I slice my finger from right to left I got that contextual menu!!!
Well you managed to make it one whole post before you veered from your own rules. :/
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I have two file servers at home for my video, ebook and music collections. Why did I put XP on them and then use them as file servers, you ask? Well, simple. I had XP on them already and it worked fine for my home network; I didn't need Windows Server. Until they die physically, I expect to continue running XP on them. "But XP is no longer supported by Microsoft", you cry! Who cares? They work right now doing what I am using them for. They work great. I don't access the internet through them, they don't update themselves unnecessarily anymore (I turned off the automatic updates after the 8th of April) and yet they keep working. Since I am not doing anything new with them I don't need any new updates. I don't need to run away to Linux and all that hassle. They just work solidly and effectively eternally (for a given value of eternity).
My desktops all run Windows 7 (except for one Vista machine I use as file download central that I don't feel the need to update as is, once again, just works at what I want it to), I am happy with Windows 7 which I have used for quite a while now but I don't have to upgrade everything to it and certain don't plan on Windows 8 until it has been properly fixed - which may never happen.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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Forogar wrote: Why did I put XP on them and then use them as file servers, you ask?
No, I asked no such thing.
Forogar wrote: "But XP is no longer supported by Microsoft", you cry!
Nor did I 'cry' anything. I merely made a comment.
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Oh yeah? Well I wasn't talking about you! Nyah, nyah, nyah!
I always like to give a mature and reasoned response.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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tl;dr
CPallini wrote: You cannot argue with agile people so just take the extreme approach and shoot him.
:Smile:
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Actually the last time I upgraded a Windows version was from Windows For Workgroups to Windows 95. All the other changes to Windows have come when I bought a new computer. My last Win XP laptop was replaced a year or so ago, although I still have it around somewhere.
My other machines are 1 Vista desktop, 1 Vista laptop, 1 Win 7 desktop, 3 Win 7 laptops, 1 Win 8.1 desktop, 2 Win 8.1 tablets. If I were only browsing the web and writing Word documents, I'd just use an old machine and run Linux with OpenOffice.
I'm not sure why you have trouble using Win 8. It took me about 10 minutes to get used to it on my desktop and less time on my tablets.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E.
Comport Computing
Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Well my issue with Win8 probably is just because up to now there is nothing new and good on it to make me want it agains Win7...
I was able to personalize my laptop (were I can't install win7 due bios issues) to look and work almost the same as Win7 (great Star7 the best add on!!!) at that point I'm comfortable with the UI, except for that side menus at the right, I totally hate them, I'm sure there is a bug with the mouse drivers that menus spams all day whenever I'm scrolling, resizing or just moving the mouse, and no way to disable them... but well forgetting about the issue with that menus... all the other work the same as Win7... and I see no real difference, also to a point that I end using this Laptop as a media player, now is stick to the 42" tv, we love netflix now!!! o yes I have installed steam there so I play games... but still have not found a single reason to really upgrade from win7 to win8.
So I can say, you can have win7 or win8, there is no real difference if you disable Metro UI
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I agree, Win 7 is much better all round, but the path to get there is just too much work.
IF MS had an auto upgrade where you keep all you aps, and Outlook express upgraded to Live mail
properly, and if the VM stil run properly on VMWAre server 2, and server 2, andyou didn'thave to upgrade your infrastructure, and if you could spare the time involved, and be ablto avoid th time and money
involved inre-education, and... the list goes on.
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2 easy words :
planned obsolescence
Remember that hardware evolve, CPU are more efficient than ever (32/64 bit, pipeline, pre-fetching, multi-cores, ... ), HDD changed from rotating platters to solid state.
All of that need improvement to the operating systems; and people tend to create (and market) new versions instead of patching old existent ones.
It is true that for most usage (and most people) , an old XP machine is sufficient, but there are more and more domains where high performance computing is needed and a new OS offer better possibilities.
I'd rather be phishing!
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Member 4673202 wrote: this is my personal feeling
So, you're just guessing?
Member 4673202 wrote: and as much as I read I feel like those articles are just to scare and force people to buy new hardware and new software
A bitchy emotional reply right back; you can use XP for whatever you want, it's just no longer supported. Meaning that if you run a bank with Windows XP and something "breaks", then you're simply f***ed. As should be.
You won't find many people who can repair a betamax video these days. If you insist that it must be used, you do so at your own friggin' risk - don't come asking for help if something breaks.
Member 4673202 wrote: I'm wondering if someone is preparing a good Security Package to support all those old win XP pcs:
Firewalls, scanners will not help fix bugs in IE. It will not help make the kernel more secure.
Member 4673202 wrote: Don't update just because is the new Fashion, update because you need it!!!
I'd recommend against consulting "feelings" when talking about the security of your network. And yes, if the only company that holds the source-code tells you it's being retired, then you HAVE TO.
..and please drop the act that people are being forced to upgrade to "the latest"; there's Vista and Win7 between XP and Weight. It's not like they're forced to running the very latest.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Quote: Firewalls, scanners will not help fix bugs in IE. It will not help make the kernel more secure.
Sorry disagree with this, it can be done by a good and mature development company, but not sure if somebody can see a real marked here. You know, hacks, injection of code, that all works for kernels, as a virus, but this time you are fixing the kernel...
Quote: I'd recommend against consulting "feelings" when talking about the security of your network. And yes, if the only company that holds the source-code tells you it's being retired, then you HAVE TO.
I have been thinking on a better example of this... because I don't see the need to remove thinks just because support have ended, you will continue using them if they still work... then I recall the best example are Cars!!!
if you have and old car, that is not supported anymore, you cant get spare parts.... but the car at this moment is 100% functional, will you replace it just because there is no support anymore or will you wait until the car fail and you cant fix it because there is no support?... probably I will wait and I will change when I really need.
so remember that I'm concentrated in a business area that have not big impact around the technology they are using, cases were you can live years with a very old PCs, places where they will have the need to change only when as you point there is no people around to support them (no one knows how to install XP!!!)
oh something I forgot, I'm not telling we shouldn't upgrade... It's just that I believe there are 2 paths one where is good and were you can upgrade as much as you want and one where you just don't have the need to upgrade and you can live happy without that needs.
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Member 4673202 wrote: Sorry disagree with this, it can be done by a good and mature development company
No, it can't; Microsoft owns the source code.
Member 4673202 wrote: one where you just don't have the need to upgrade and you can live happy without that needs.
Happy until it breaks, yes.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Quote: No, it can't; Microsoft owns the source code.
My idea is to create DLLs or to inject code when the kernel is already in memory, it can also modify the binary files, but this requires a lot of patience and tremendous knowledge in injection and hacking... not sure if valuable... then you will never require the source code.
I have done that before to create small hacks to games but have never tried to create a virus, so not sure how hard is it for and old OS like XP, I'm sure you can apply the injection or hacks to fix the kernel issues, but still not sure if valuable, probably that is one of the reasons nobody is trying to get that market.
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Finding a number in memory that represents something in-game and changing it isn't hard - and it's not hacking. Reading binary code, finding out what it does, and change it - is hard.
Further, it'd be illegal; Windows not your property.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Once again, with the security agument reason for upgrading.
No one is secure anywhere, Infact it wont be long before XP will be more secure, as it will not be targeted anymore.
The only argument, I would use is that if you want to continue using IE, then you need to upgrade,
because MS have delibritly gone out of thier way to not allow modern IE on XP.
Just use CHrOme iinstead.
And don't listen o the secruity rhetoric.
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For what it's worth, I've upgraded several systems from XP to Windows 7 and found that they all ran better with the latter.
I first ran XP on a system with 1GB of memory. It worked as long as I didn't do much of anything. By SP3, XP had become horrendously bloated and could barely run on a system with 2GB of memory (or even 2.5 GB for one of my systems.) By contrast, Windows 7 runs great on on systems with 2 GB of memory.
Member 4673202 wrote: Can you imagine billing 10USD annually by PC_, today the amount of XP machines are still over 30% that should be a huge income!!
Actually, no. People who won't upgrade their OS or computer aren't going to otherwise spend money on their installation. Most are using it as a second system and/or waiting for it to die so they have an excuse to buy something better. (I had such a system. Despite capacitors falling off the Asus motherboard and half a gig of memory not being recognized, it never did die on it's own, so I killed it. Made about $50 selling the CPU, memory, hard drive and video card on eBay.)
Finally, whatever UI issues exist with Windows 8.x, it's otherwise a kickass OS.
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