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programmer sounds like someone who is write code as a better secretary.
I like more software developer, because it sounds more discovering new ways in software.
I feel more and more writing code is sometimes annoying and an easy routine, but finding a concept "how to solve this problem" or GUI is really harder. 
Press F1 for help or google it.
Greetings from Germany
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Funny. To me, "software developer" sounds like a soft programmer: the exact opposite impression that you have of it.
You're (possibly) right about the "writing code" thing -- but it depends on why: a good programmer will say that all the work takes place in the head - the part where you actually type the program into the computer is done after the event, and is the menial bit...
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dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/[^]
"“Programmer” sounds like “anomalously high-cost peon who types some mumbo-jumbo into some other mumbo-jumbo.” If you call yourself a programmer, someone is already working on a way to get you fired. "
modified 20-Oct-19 21:02pm.
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Alternative title: why you should run like hell from business programming
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Ah, now that I can agree with. It's a shame that's where most of the money is, though... however, I've found over the years that if you want to, you can still do elegant things where business programming is concerned - of course, you'll never have an audience for it, but then again, most programmers are fairly solipsistic anyway.
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harold aptroot wrote: why you should run like hell from business programming
Versus what exactly? Academics?
Myself, businesses make money and I like getting paid.
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I don't pretend to have the answer. That article, however, strongly argues against going into (or being in) business programming.
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Interesting. It'd be fascinating to get the ages of everyone who posts: I wonder if opinions like yours come from a different generation from mine (I'm 48 - been programming since 1979): perhaps I'm just old...
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I'm 63 - been programming since 1967. I am older than all others in my department and started programming before my immediate manager was born. 
According to my calculations, I should be able to retire about 5 years after I die.
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This smells too much of marketing efforts. My guess is that this has something to do with the fact that you want a shallow description to separate the good from the bad/ugly. Meaning that the ones that cant use google or doesn't know anybody that works on code, would blurp out programmer instead of engineer or coder? I wouldn't be surprised if it was 
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No - it's not about that. It's about the fact that, back in the days, being a "programmer" was something to be proud of - perhaps because it was a new thing to be -- there wasn't much of a history of programming in the '70s... perhaps it's just old-fashioned at this point, or ubiquitous, or something -- mind you, these days, there's a slew of sh*tty programmers around (just try hiring one) whereas 30 years ago, there wasn't room for sh*tty programmers -- the whole industry's different at this point.
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Well, I'm not that old, but the people that are educated as an engineer in a discipline other than programming, sees it as a tool to do their work and little else, and the professors I had seem to have the same idea.
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Well, sure... but programming's a bit more than that, really: I think (well, actually I know) that if you're deeply into it, then it becomes a mindset: it's not by accident that things like "The Tao of Programming" and thecodelesscode.com exist; programming bleeds into everything else in life, and changes you fundamentally as an individual.
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I suppose, ultimately, that this either makes sense to you or it doesn't, and if it doesn't then you're not all the way there as a programmer yet:
http://thecodelesscode.com/case/8[^]
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30 years ago, being a "programmer" could also mean you'd completed IBM's 6 week programmer course (no prior knowledge necessary). Workwise, programmers got a document describing the module they were to write and wrote it. Programmers didn't necessarily know anything about how the whole system worked or how all the modules fit together -- that was someone else's job.
After learning that, I stopped calling myself a programmer since that wasn't what I'd been trained to do nor the kinds of work I was interested in.
While I'm not big on titles, some organizations are, and it does matter when you're applying for a job. Someone calling themselves a programmer isn't likely to get the software architect job, even if they do have the skills and experience needed, because the organization will never bring them in to interview.
We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.
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Dan Sutton wrote: 30 years ago, there wasn't room for sh***y programmers
Really? What happened to all those sh***y programmers I encountered in the 60s? 
All that is necessary for Evil to succeed is for Good Folks to keep voting for their Party. - Cornelius Thirp
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I was worked with some glass lickers who thought calling themselves Software Developers was the answer. They'd explain this by saying software developers went beyond programmers by: [list of tasks you do in programming]. I'd point out that's exactly what programmers do. They'd get angry. Loop.
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Funnny. I had a similar experience. Then I trapped them with logic, thus: "If this sentence is not untrue, then I'm right and you're wrong" -- they didn't understand that, of course, and thus the pseudo-proof failed - but at the same time, by failing, validated itself. So then I followed the advice a colleague of mine gave me years ago: "Step away, and Feel Superior!"
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Dan Sutton wrote: ... all over the place
Perception, perception, perception.
Most people that pay other people to work want people that can actually do the job. The verbiage doesn't have anything to do with it.
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Having read the thread, I can now respond.
I am 51 and have been professionally employed designing and writing code since 1986.
Having said that:
Programmers are perceived as those that simply key in the code; they are not analysts
Analysts are perceived as those that can think through an issue; they don't necessarily write the code
Combintations of the two can think and code
Architects are so far above the analsyis and coding that they sometimes forget that a foundation must be built
And I expect a process to come crashing down in a few months because the solutions architects, application architects and data architects forgot to ask the people that actually support the underlying structure what simple level configuration is required (trusts, firewalls, application IDs... you know... the unimportant stuff).
Tim
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Yes - that's about right... I've always thought of "programmer" as including "analyst", but I take your point: an external perception might ignore it. Of course, "Architect" means something only to "Architects"!
[Quote from somewhere]: If (structural) architects designed buildings the way programmers design software, then civilization as we know it would collapse overnight!
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Dan Sutton wrote: [Quote from somewhere]: If (structural) architects designed buildings the way programmers design software, then civilization as we know it would collapse overnight!
Variant:
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote software the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization.
A positive attitude may not solve every problem, but it will annoy enough people to be worth the effort.
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Luckily that kind of software is not used on import things. Just on normal business data processing or whatever they call it today.
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Twenty three years ago when I got my first job as a COBOL programmer for Norwich Union - that is all I did. I was given a specification and I just programmed and tested to the specification.
We had business analysts, project managers and systems analysts.
Now I work as a developer, this means being a business analyst, project manager, systems analyst and coder.
That's why I don't call myself a programmer or coder as I help the business in its development of IT systems through business analysis, project management, systems analysis and programming.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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