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In most offices, you ARE in a shared space for sound-boarding - I did it all the time. I do not have a problem with that. And I have no problem going over to others and describing issues/ideas.
Most mature adults will do that on their own, and not require a sheep herder in order to force it. And as (supposedly) mature responsible adults, we all should be doing what we need in all aspects of application development.
We should not need to be 'forced' by Agile tactics to accomplish what we are supposed to be doing without it.
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I never got into the pair programming thing, but I just had a small epiphany. Do PCs work with two keyboards?
A keyboard and mouse is probably the most peculiar thing about a developer (one of the reasons why I hate new laptops - getting used to the keyboard). I just have this vision of two developers beating each other with keyboards.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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charlieg wrote: Do PCs work with two keyboards?
Yes, and 2 mouses as well. I even used dual mouse for a game...
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Video or it didn't happen! 
Seriously, details please.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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LOL no big deal, in Gabriel Knight 3 there is a part of the game where you have to collect fingerprints and it requires a lot of clicking. My game craqshed, I had to redo it again and had no patience, tried using both the plugged mouses (dual boot system and one mouse didn't work on Linux) and I manage to click hyperfast using both hands.
I then used it a bunch of other times in some stupid minigames where a crapton of fast clicks were needed to have a slider go up, I forgot the games though. Also I had two keyboards on because my pro gaming wonderful keyboard... doesn't work in BIOS. So I have a basic second one always plugged in.
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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lol, now I REALLY want to see the video.
I can't play FPS games (current shading techniques make me nauseous) barely survive things like flight sims and prefer turn based strategy. I simply cannot play any console games. Years ago, we had a Wii. I could bowl, etc but trying to play ice hockey? All my defense men went into dance mode.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Hmm, I'm wondering if I might have ADD. (no H though, I've never managed a crapton of code ever)
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Member 14840496 wrote: But since pair programming IS part of Agile, not practicing it means that one is not doing pure Agile.
Pure "Agile", there is a laugh.
So many flavors, so many opinions on what Agile is you can do almost anything and call it "Agile"
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We use pair programming as a training tool, not an everyday occurrence. For example, I'm an expert in SQL, but my dev co-working is an expert in business logic for this domain. If they need SQL done in the BLL, we work together to get the job done. We look at each other's code and work on the same machine to get through the hard/tricky stuff. The easy stuff we go back to our own machines. It's very fluid, as needed, and agile.
In short, we just work together to get the job done.
Bond
Keep all things as simple as possible, but no simpler. -said someone, somewhere
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Matt Bond wrote: , we just work together to get the job done.
I don't think that is quite pair programming, but yes, many times we work together.
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Contradictory opinion.
Obviously, we are suffering from too many meetings, but we're doing good progress with Agile.
We have regular releases, we work hard to define issues/stories.
We have good people in all of our teams, from programmers to product owners to management.
I rarely do pair programming, but we do it.
it's not perfect, we're improving the process by adapting it to our need.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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I fully expected Agile followers to sell some successes, and you certainly are entitled to your contradictory opinion - for sure.
I guess my retort, and I mean this more as a humorous remark - to me the word progress and Agile is an oxymoron. https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/smiley_biggrin.gif
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Agile smagile. I'm enjoying myself much more now that I'm a team of one and can just code.
Real programmers use butterflies
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Yep. Doesn't have much fail-over, but that is never my problem when I am the one on the team. 
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you are weird. you will never approach a customer. Thou must be cloked.
Just kidding. 
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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You're not entirely wrong. I am weird. But I eat customers which involves approaching them, especially when they're unsuspecting.
Real programmers use butterflies
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lol. You'll just confuse them. Back to the lab with you.
I've worked with a couple of people with really high intelligence and passion (over the years). Nothing wrong with the rest of us or you, but some of you are just in your own little orbit. I made sure to send food to engineering from time to time. *Always* got my bug fixed.
Charlie Gilley
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
Has never been more appropriate.
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Well, to be fair I'm nursing a Cluster-A condition and so I am quite mad. That sort of comes with its own orbit.
Real programmers use butterflies
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It's the equivalent of letting amateurs wire your house for electricity (IT management that has reached its level of incompetence). In the case of software, it's legal.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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IOW, Agile is like teenage sex:
- Everyone says they are doing it
- Very few are actually doing it
- Those who are doing it are doing it wrong
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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So in short: Managers forced you to work in direct contradiction of the agile manifesto and from this you can conclude that agile does not work?
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I never said it didn't work.
I was pointing out the negative aspects, which seem to be ignored by those enthralled by it.
- Significant increased development costs.
- Business rebuffs due to strict IT rules.
- Loss of independent accountability - matrix development.
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Probably because people who come from the world of Gantt charts detailing a 12 month waterfall project have seen development cost go down while accountability and flexibility increases.
If you start with a lean small team already following the agile manifesto (probably not even knowing they do so) and then add process for the sake of the process, is it surprising cost goes up and flexibility and ownership are lost?
Isn't this confirming the agile manifesto is on to something? When prioritizing processes over people and interactions, then you are doing the wrong thing?
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There are some good things about agile - iterativeness, going step by step, the fact that the developers themselves decide on how long implementation of a feature would take, the fact that the QA of a feature is done right away when a feature is implemented, so that the current KNOWN state of the project is close to its real state. Peer programming on a regular basis is nonsense - never saw it being practiced successfully.
A leader should take only good parts of Agile, employ his own good sense and not to follow it by the book so to say.
Nick Polyak
modified 22-Nov-21 12:06pm.
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