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... after-thought ... I watched the final this morning, scrolling through the stream pretty fast (except for Poland) ... now I feel a bit guilty about posting this rather gloomy old-man's take. Yeah, it's a human event that made a lot of people happy (I think), and inspired good feelings (I hope). I was struck again by how much the Netherlands excellent song (compared to the others) seemed like the two performers had just stepped off the stage of the Grand Ole' Opry in Nashville, Tennessee, and the Hungarian entry could have been a hip-hip/soul homeboy from any American inner-city. ... So, mea culpa.
I made the serious mistake of watching the two EuroTrashVision semi-finals. I had never seen ETV before, never read anything about it, had only a vague that it was a bunch of Euro countries competing every year musically. Yes, I am (by choice) that disconnected from pop culture on every continent and hemisphere. And, beginning in November of last year I broke a six-year television fast to sign-up for an on-line streaming service that gets me the BBC channels, the ITV channels, and a few others.
Naively, I thought, perhaps I'd hear performers singing in their own native language, perhaps have a chance to hear some music using ethnic instruments.
Never did I dream that I would hear the worst of the world's what I call "Happy Meal" music, a mongrelized blend of blues, rock, soul, pop, hip-hop, night-club-pseudo-operatic, and the usual shouting, screaming, blasting through dense layers of synths and sound-effects to thundering drums. Okay, I did, I think, in the Armenian Montenegrin (?) entry, hear a lovely sound of a single-reed a little like the Armenian Duduk, but, could have been a synth playing a sample.
Almost all the songs in English ! uhhhh ... what about national pride ?
I did enjoy the Polish entry with the sound-track turned off: thanks for the lovely twirling maidens in traditional dress, superb visuals, and very special thanks for the lovely young ... exceptionally well-endowed ... woman simulating washing clothes in a way that gave "rub-a-dub-dub" a whole new meaning for me !
I admit I enjoyed some of the remarkable visuals ... when I wasn't having seizures from the strobes and visual fireworks, punctuated by belching pinnacles of fire.
The vocal abilities/qualities of the singers were, for me, barely perceptible given the din they were entombed in.
If this contest represents Euro culture (and, I don't really believe it does), then I think the USA has indeed conquered Europe: the worst of American "culture" and music, that is. All of the hormones and none of the musicality.
Taken as farce, as what the great Russian literary critic Bakhtin would have called a manifestation of "carnivalesque" ... yeah ... it works, I guess. I just hope it's not a preview of the particular Hell I am undoubtedly bound for.
Well, that's just another nail in the coffin of my curmudgeonhood, I guess.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
modified 11-May-14 0:00am.
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So...you didn't like it? 
I have not watched it in years, but the language thing has gone back and forth. ABBA had their big break with Waterloo in 1974[^] and I know they later changed the rules, so the performers had to sing in their native language. I guess they changed that back again (I am not really up for studying the history of their rules right now  ).
The reason the songs end up being pop culturish, is because it is a contest and they are trying to win. To do that on a continent as diverse as Europe, you need to present a song that is easily digested by citizens of other countries. English becomes the goto language since everyone are used to hearing that.
Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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Hi Soren,
Well, I wouldn't say I disliked it, but it reminded me of the (many) aspects of contemporary American culture (my own) that I consider abominations  Clearly, some contestants (a few) did sing in their own languages.
If there was anything that fascinated me about the contests, it was the visuals, and I kept thinking about the possible complexity of the software and programming that controlled/synchronized all those screens, and the special-effects. I am going to try and find something on the web about the technical aspects of the show, and I'd really enjoy seeing a documentary on that.
The social scientist in me wonders what I'd find if I examined the "Top Ten Hits" tunes of the finalists' countries, and analyzed the extent to which, over time, the countries most popular songs were in the native language, or in other languages. Of course, there are the super-stars and groups whose popularity is world-wide, which often has to do with the international music business, and marketing dollars. Thinking about that drives me 'Gaga
I believe there are many very talented musicians from many Euro countries who really can sing and play, and whose song lyrics, in their own native language, are very creative, whose songs are wildly popular, and I didn't see people of that level in any of the contests. For me, the duo from the Netherlands were about as close to high quality as I perceive it. That may simply reflect the structure/whatever of EuroVision which I am blissfully ignorant of.
cheers, Bill
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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I didn't actually know Denmark won last year (maybe I had been told and it just seeped out of my brains ). I found the list of winners[^] through the years. They probably changed the "native language" rule after Ireland won four times in the 90's. 
Regarding the cultural aspect, I remember back in the 80's and 90's when they had to sing in their native language, there was a core of singers, bands and songwriters that took part year after year at the Danish contest. There would obviously also be new faces each year, as well as the occasional well established and popular band taking part, but the show always had this familiar feeling to it.
I would not say that the winners always represented the Danish culture, I would even say that most performers that participated would from that point on be considered "Eurovision performers" - it was (is?) its own musical genre like Rock, Pop, Country & Western, etc.
I don't know if it is the same way in the other countries and I have been removed from it for 13 years, so things could be different now.
Soren Madsen
"When you don't know what you're doing it's best to do it quickly" - Jase #DuckDynasty
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BillWoodruff wrote: If there was anything that fascinated me about the contests, it was the visuals
You did mention young well endowed Polish girls stimulating you by washing clothes. 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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BillWoodruff wrote: very special thanks for the lovely young ... exceptionally well-endowed ... woman simulating washing clothes in a way that gave "rub-a-dub-dub" a whole new meaning for me !
TMI 
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Sawasdee Khrup, Khun James,
Would you like me to run my Lounge messages by you for a pre-post morality check ?
yours, Bill
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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No thank you.
BillWoodruff wrote:
superb visuals, and very special thanks for the lovely young ... exceptionally well-endowed ... woman simulating washing clothes in a way that gave "rub-a-dub-dub" a whole new meaning for me !
The thought of you Rub-A-Dub-Dubbing while watching young well endowed Polish girls is more than I can bear.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
I'm on-line therefore I am.
JimmyRopes
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Hi Bill,
I think your expectations were a bit high as regards the cultural aspect
I'm from The Netherlands (one of the Euro countries as you put it). AFAIK, this contest is mostly about winning for your country, similar to the soccer world cup or european cup, the Olympics, etc. It isn't about showing off your contry's heritage. At least in The Netherlands it seems to produce the same friendly nationalistic fervour as international sporting events, especially this year when we had a chance to win. To do that, your performance has to appeal to other Europeans so they give you the points you need to win.
Matt
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Both Ilse de Lange (entry this year) and Anouk (entry last year) sing in English all the time.
Anouk even tried to make it big in America (with little success I believe).
They're both not bad if you like that sort of thing though. I guess that's why we ended so high. It beats De Toppers anyway! 
It's an OO world.
public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
{
public void DoWork()
{
throw new NotSupportedException();
}
}
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Hi Bill,
I think you had the wrong expectations. Try viewing it as a spectacle show to bring brainless entertainment to as much people as possible. If you look at it like that I guess it's pretty spot on, no?
If you really want some European culture I suggest you visit sometime. See some castles, old cities, churches, etc.
And if you come to the Netherlands don't forget to visit a mill and De Keukenhof. Utrecht has a great historical city centre, you'll enjoy the shops at the canals. And since we're below sea level we have some great devices to keep the water out. I live next to the Haringvlietsluizen, pretty impressive!
Or maybe France is more to your liking, visit the Louvre, the Eiffel Tower or the Arc de Triumph. And you could visit a fashion show I guess.
Germany has some nice sights. They had many composers, philosopers and inventors. Lots of museums, old buildings and, of course, war monuments.
Are you more of a classic kind of guy? Maybe Italy or Greece are more to your liking. The Acropolis in Athens is worth seeing and so are the many monuments in Rome. Don't forget the Vatican while you're there either!
Or perhaps you prefer English speaking countries? London is a nice city with some great historical and less historical sights. Big Ben, London Bridge, those funny guards at the palace... You know.
Or of course Scotland or Ireland. If you happen to go to Edinburgh be sure to visit the Edinburgh Military Tattoo[^]. I've been there a few years ago and, like the Eurovision Songfestival, it's a musical spectacle bringing nations together while entertaining the whole time.
I've not yet mentioned Eastern Europe. They have some of the most impressive castles, churches and ruins in entire Europe (and the entire world)! You'll also find lots of traces of communism.
While you're visiting any city in Europe keep an eye out for the great historical buildings! You'll probably see some old architecture just by looking at the houses (try Amsterdam if you're in the Netherlands). You're probably aware that some of it was bombed during WWII, so in some cities you'll be able to see both new and old architecture side by side.
I'm not even talking about the beautiful nature Europe has to offer. The Netherlands lies below sea level, we have sea and dunes. You might also be amazed at how flat out country is. Further north, in Scandinavia they have fjords, take a boat trip and visit them it's worth it! In Scotland there's the Highlands, I loved seeing those. To the east are beautiful, ancient forests. And in the south you can relax at white beaches and blue water. You can also find mountains in many countries. You'll find that the local environment helps shape our cultures.
All these activities are best undertaken while listening to some classical music. From the baroque era we have Bach, Purcell, Vivaldi, Händel... Or do you like classic such as Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Schubert? Then there's the composers who drew from their own folk culture. Nielssen (Denmark), Grieg (Norway), Smetana (Czech), Dvorak (Czech) or Sibelius (Finland) you might hear some of those folk influences. Or of course modern, such as Satie, Debussy or Ravel. You might want to see a German or an Italian opera (I wouldn't go for German... They're LONG and HEAVY!). And I want to give special notion to some Eastern European composers, Stravinsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, Mussorgsky and Tchaikovsky. They have some good stuff going on!
These are just the things you can SEE and HEAR. But you must be sure to visit the many restaurants and eat the local food (I'm a vegetarian, but if I weren't I'd skip haggis and escargot, but that's up to you ). I should probably mention that the Dutch and Germans don't eat sauerkraut all the time and that Italians have more than just pizza and spaghetti!
And try talking to some people. You'll find each European country has it's own cultural values. For example, the Dutch are perhaps a bit rude, quite sober and we're generally good traders (some countries may call us cheap, we're known for "kijken, kijken, niet kopen", or "look, look, don't buy").
Please let me know if your trip to Europe made up for the lack of culture presented by the Eurovision Songfestival. I've only scratched the (more touristic) surface!
It's an OO world.
public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
{
public void DoWork()
{
throw new NotSupportedException();
}
}
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Hi Sander, Thanks for the mini-Baedeker guide ! Did you notice this line in my post:
"If this contest represents Euro culture (and, I don't really believe it does),"
I'd say EuroVision is to (what I consider) real culture as fleas are to the dog they live on. That EuroVision's lowest-common-denominator Americanized flavor is what sells in the global village: well, what else could you expect from Homo Sap collectively ? Just examine the lingua franca of the Lounge for further proof
cheers, Bill
p.s. I had a wonderful time in Amsterdam, where I accompanied a dying disabled Dutch friend back from Thailand for medical care. I stayed very near the wonderful Rijksmuseum. While taking physical care of my friend took four hours a day, the rest of the time I was free to explore the city; I found people friendly, hospitable. And, I was lucky the weather was excellent the two weeks I was there (in late August).
A highlight of the trip for me was the opportunity to meet in person a client in Den Hague who I had assisted in collecting S.E. Asian art (at that time I was a kind-of dealer-consultant). The client, a French Ph.D. in chemistry working for the EU, had a world-class collection of south Indian sacred art, including both Jain, Buddhist, and Hindu sculpture. Another highlight was being able to meet a world-class expert on Etruscan, Roman, and Mediterranean world ancient art who was able to advise me regarding what may be a rare medallion I had found in Thailand, which probably is greater-Roman world origin circa 100-200CE, and probably was shipped across India, and then to the Indian trading enclave of Oc Eo on the coast of Vietnam where many Roman artifacts were discovered by the French archaeologist Malleret in the 1920's.
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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BillWoodruff wrote: Did you notice this line in my post:
"If this contest represents Euro culture (and, I don't really believe it does),"
I did, but I wasn't sure how educated you were in what Europe really has to offer.
Judging from your travel report you're probably more aware of what Europe (or any continent) has to offer in terms of culture and history than me 
I'm not very interested in art outside film and music (although I did study Common Art and Cultural Sciences). I did visit most places I mentioned in my previous post (I haven't been in London and Paris).
I enjoy visiting other countries and checking out some historical sites. I don't enjoy reading a lot more about them though. I guess I'm more of a visual kind of guy 
It's an OO world.
public class SanderRossel : Lazy<Person>
{
public void DoWork()
{
throw new NotSupportedException();
}
}
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Yep...and it's always good for a party. The Twitter commentary was great fun too.
Anna ![Rose | [Rose]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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Hey, just saw your message while browsing the Lounge. So, still on CP from time to time ?
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Entropy isn't what it used to.
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Yep. I try to drop in every so often, but it depends how busy things are.
Anna
Tech Blog | Visual Lint
"Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
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0. I did not watch Eurovision
1. I did not read you entire post.
2. Why do you give rats ass to singing reality show?
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0. Why does it disturb you that other people on the Lounge post about things they are interested in, but which you, evidently, are not ?
“I speak in a poem of the ancient food of heroes: humiliation, unhappiness, discord. Those things are given to us to transform, so that we may make from the miserable circumstances of our lives things that are eternal, or aspire to be so.” Jorge Luis Borges
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Because it does not make sense for an intelligent community.
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Europop has been a well known area of trash culture to be laughed at for many years. I'm not sure it's entirely the US's fault, they've been taking bits of our (British) pop culture for it for ages.
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BillWoodruff wrote: then I think the USA has indeed conquered Europe: the worst of American
"culture" and music, that is.
We had to pay them back for Techno.
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Heard of Keepod? Nope, nor had I.
It's a bootable memory stick[^] with a PC version of Android on it that will boot any PC, even if it doesn't have an HDD. They have given one to each child at the school, the idea being that if they download a virus it can't affect anyone else sharing the computer. So each child carries his favourite, preferences (and virii) with him from computer to computer.
And a small chunk of an enormous African slum gets connected to the internet (via the traditional carrier bag router and "unofficial" electricity) and a bunch of children get a small-but-noticeable chance to improve themselves and maybe, just maybe, work their way out of the slum.
Good on 'em! 
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952)
Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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We must have been reading that in sync! Sounds like a fantastic idea. Hope it succeeds
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Great idea!
/ravi
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