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I'd have phoned Police Squad.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Yes, Leslie was telling us about it earlier.
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Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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I see now, seem to have missed it.
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Purgatory. It's your turn and time to pass through the Leslie Loop.
If there is one thing more dangerous than getting between a bear and her cubs it's getting between my wife and her chocolate.
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I like to think I would have played it cool and started laughing.
But I totally would have screamed like a little girl while setting the new land speed record on foot.
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Hello all,
A friend of mine (the same guy which laptop HDD died last week), is starting a new business and he asked me about the pro's and con's of free accounting softwares out there.
Of course the main pro I can see is that they are free. And the wors con would be a bad tech support or product.
I've seen several options ContaMoney, NCH software... which offer a complete and free software and a specialized and paid tech support... but you know free and business... sometimes they don't cope well together...
Have you got any experience in that kind of programs?
Thank you in advance! 
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I would suggest following two options (both are web based).
1. Wave Accounting[^] (Free)
We use this to see where we stand on day-to-day basis. Otherwise we have contracted with an accountant, who does the final accounts and file our taxes (Better to hire a professional than wasting time with the Tax office). But Wave Accounting can also set you up with the accountant if you want (which is why they offer everything for free, because they will charge you if you need a real accountant). But if you know accounting then you can use it for free forever.
2. Xero[^] (Paid)
I don't have personal experience with Xero, but I have heard only good things about it.
modified 8-Oct-13 6:01am.
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Thank you for your suggestions Rutvik! I'll take a look at them.
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I offer this advice...
NEVER, EVER use free accounts software.
There is always a catch.
It may be a bit crappy, unsupported, leaky where data is concerned, not easy to adapt reports for, non standard out putting etc etc.
Also I would advise against cloud accounting, no data integrity.
Best bet is something like Quick Books Pro (about £200) and sits on your own system and is secure.
The reports are excellent and it is fairly intuitive to use.
---------------------------------
Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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Dalek Dave wrote: Also I would advise against cloud accounting, no data integrity.
That is a bit of a sweeping statement.
Expand.....
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Self evident.
If you have all your accounts data on your own system then no-one else can see it.
Push it over to some hosted datacentre then they can inspect it.
They will know who your customers and suppliers are (this is very confidential, I do not want my customers knowing my suppliers nor my suppliers knowing my customers), they also can see where your money is coming from, what you are spending it on etc.
Commercial Secrecy is important.
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Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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Dalek Dave wrote: Commercial Secrecy is important.
Should you be telling people that?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Oh.
Let's hope they were busy and didn't listen.
---------------------------------
Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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Ah, I see where you are coming from, that not data integrity to me, thats data privacy.
Although, it depends on how the system is built. if you have suitable layers of abstraction and data encryotion, and purely use the cloud as a data store, i.e. the actual HMI is software running locally with an encrypted link to the data store, then techincally you can get the best of both worlds with data integrity and data privacy.
It is all about finding the balance. At the end of the day every customer/consumer has different use cases and they must use what is right for them.
You certainly are seeing more articles about how companies start of on a single box locally, develop intiial system, push to cloud to take advantage of scaling capabilities, and once established and grow at a relatively known state are moving back in house to manage costs of the IT infrasture as cloud costs are still excessive.
Everytime I have looked at moving to AWS/Azure/GApps and current compare usage with their pricing (and taken into account current VS spec) it is still working out cheaper for me to host a simple VS with 1and1.
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DaveAuld wrote: cloud costs are still excessive
Price Comparison:
-- local disc storage: 1TB = 100 (pounds/euros/dollars; it's a rough figure)
-- cloud storage: The Sky's the Limit!
There's only one business that the cloud is good for.
Believe it or not, the people who produce marketing billshut are not really your friends.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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I can see your reasons... Thank you DD!
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I'd have to go with the Dalek's advice: don't bother with free packages.
Depending on the amount of transactions flowing through the system to start with (which is probably going to be pretty small) he may be able to get away with starting off in Excel - I've done it before and it works well for a small business - then migrating to a paid-for package when the number of transactions (or his spare time to learn the package) increases.
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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Thank you for your comments OG
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OriginalGriff wrote: he may be able to get away with starting off in Excel - I've done it before and
it works well for a small business - then migrating
You are evil! To many business processes are started out that way, and end up in a mess.
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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When you start up a small business, you have generally got far, far too much to do anyway, and the number of transactions you will be dealing with is tiny! There is little point in trying to get your head around how accountants think if that takes a couple of days out of you actually earning in the early days. When the transactions pick up, generally the work load drops as well because you have worked out the procedures in the rest of the company to make it get easier. At that point you have a little time (and a better feel for what the company actually needs) to look at getting the right package in and learning it, but you already have the data in a comprehensible format ready to enter - rather than a pile of invoices and electronic check stubs and no idea what goes where!
Starting out with something you know already isn't evil, it pragmatic: provided you intend to do it properly later when you know more about what you are trying to do. 
When I took over the MDship of my first company, I inherited a paper system involving piles: "here's a invoice, I'll put it on that pile of paper" then every year all the piles were dumped in a box and handed to the accountant! So the first thing I did was use Excel to track invoices against payments, and start some elementary reports. Since I only did basic accounting at school, I had no idea what I would have needed and would have wasted a lot of time on the wrong package. Excel was fine for a while, and showed me how complex the job I needed to do on a daily or weekly basis was - not very, if you did it on the day!
How far was I out? Under a quid for the year according to the VAT inspector (and our accountant bills became a damn sight smaller, too).
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger.
English doesn't borrow from other languages.
English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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-£500 on the creditors list is bigger than £300 on the debtors.
High Negative G Force could kill you quicker than a low Positive G.
Is -15 metres near the surface than +2 metres?
---------------------------------
Obscurum per obscurius.
Ad astra per alas porci.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur .
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those do not make sense, whilst the effects differ the amounts are still LESS, just because a low amount of something is undesirable/dangerous does not make that number more
#1 surely if its negative on one list and possitive on the other then the number is either -500 and - 300 or +500 and +300 when like to like is compared (I maybe wrong I know accountants do bend reality when playing with numbers)
#2 no, high negative g is still less than low positive g what the effect is of that on a body is irrelavent
# no, -15 is further away than + 2 isnt that obvious, if not turn it sideways, is a point 15 meters to the left closer that one 2 meters to the right?
You cant outrun the world, but there is no harm in getting a head start
Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.
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It appears that Daleks get the meanings of "negative" mixed up.
It's like when idiots say that passive voice should be avoided.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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