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There's a large code base of COBOL being maintained and even new development where I am currently working, and I took the opportunity to talk to one of the COBOL devs yesterday because it turned out they've already done an implementation of something in COBOL that I'll be doing in C# for another project, and I wanted to take the opportunity to learn about any difficulties they had encountered with this particular task. It was well worth the time.
I must say, it was refreshing talking to someone with 30 years of development experience -- we're about the same age, she took the mainframe development path in college whereas I dropped out and futzed around with PET's, C64's, and embedded processors in the early 80's.
But the thing that stood out the most was how she approaches coding with a discipline gained from experience. Disciplines including good code structure, commenting practices, readability, maintainability, etc. Things that transcend the language, and things that I so often have not encountered with cough younger devs.
It was nice. 
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: things that I so often have not encountered
Programming (today) is just copy and paste from the internet, as any fule kno.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote: as any fule kno.
+1 for the Molesworth reference.
Slogans aren't solutions.
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I was wondering who else would remember ...
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Marc Clifton wrote: I must say, it was refreshing talking to someone with 30 years of development experience
Nothing new in that, you do that here in the Lounge every day! 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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I'd just like a chance to prove that money can't make me happy.
Me, all the time
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Johnny J. wrote: Nothing new in that, you do that here in the Lounge every day!
Yes, but it's especially nice when it's a coworker. 
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: good code structure, commenting practices, readability, maintainability
/ravi
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Marc Clifton wrote: But the thing that stood out the most was how she approaches coding with a discipline gained from experience. Disciplines including good code structure, commenting practices, readability, maintainability, etc. Things that transcend the language, and things that I so often have not encountered with cough younger devs.
I believe these traits are gained from a persons training, pride in their work and experience, especially after maintaining years of others sh*tty code.
New version: WinHeist Version 2.2.2 Beta I told my psychiatrist that I was hearing voices in my head. He said you don't have a psychiatrist!
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Mike Hankey wrote: I believe these traits are gained from a persons training, pride in their work and experience, especially after maintaining years of others sh*tty code
FTFY
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Mike Hankey wrote: I believe these traits are gained from a persons training, pride in their work and experience, especially after maintaining years of others sh*tty code.
The former was noticed by me and latter was commented on by said coworker, 
Marc
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Quite right Marc!
I think there is a generational gap. The more experienced developers come from an era where software/hardware was a bit more blurred, you had to switch into assembly on occasion and know your calling conventions.
Then that awful Gang of Four book came out and everyone started spouting patterns the whole time. Then, God Forbid, computers became cool (they were extremely uncool in my youth) and people with silly haircuts got involved. Then that agile nonsense arrived and everyone worried about how they worked rather than whether it worked.
If I were to hire someone, I'd find the oldest person I could (punch cards at a minimum) who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly).
Regards,
Rob Philpott.
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Rob Philpott wrote: If I were to hire someone, I'd find the oldest person I could (punch cards at a minimum) who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly).
That sounds like an advert for me. I am [un]lucky enough to have kept almost all my hair and I don't have a silly haircut. I don't consider my haircut silly. At present I believe the senility to be still mild (no worse than it was 30 years ago) and it's balanced by a healthy degree of curmudgeonliness.
Phil
The opinions expressed in this post are not necessarily those of the author, especially if you find them impolite, inaccurate or inflammatory.
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This discussion has gotten me to wonder just how old, on average, CP regulars are. I'm 52, which explains why I like this group so much.  Maybe this would make a good straw poll question.
When you are dead, you won't even know that you are dead. It's a pain only felt by others.
Same thing when you are stupid.
modified 19-Nov-21 21:01pm.
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I think there is fairly high representation of us old farts here but I doubt we are the majority, even of the active members.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Rob Philpott wrote: If I were to hire someone, I'd find the oldest person I could (punch cards at a minimum)
I might just fit the bill.
Back in the day, I wired the plugboards for: the IBM Card Sorter, Electronic Multiplying Punch and Tabulator. Then on to programming in Assembler and (when unavoidable) COBOL.
Rob Philpott wrote: who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly)
Damn! Fell at the last hurdle. 
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Rob Philpott wrote: you had to switch into assembly on occasion and know your calling conventions.
I was also, quite frankly, tickled by the fact that she still considered how much memory / disk space a record took. A rare thing nowadays.
Rob Philpott wrote: Then that awful Gang of Four book came out and everyone started spouting patterns the whole time.
I remember when that came out, and all the developers were yammering on about this or that design pattern, and I thought, WTF, I've been coding like this for years, and they're talking as if it's something new.
Rob Philpott wrote: and people with silly haircuts got involved.
I resemble that remark, except that I haven't actually had a haircut in years. Pony tail stays about shoulder length.
Rob Philpott wrote: Then that agile nonsense arrived and everyone worried about how they worked rather than whether it worked.
Heck, then everyone worried about how they worked rather than working!
Marc
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Rob Philpott wrote: who hadn't actually slipped in senility yet (or just mildly).
They'd still sling out better code than the young-uns.
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Marc Clifton wrote: things that I so often have not encountered with cough younger devs.
I think you meant to put the cough in a different place:
"...things that I so often have not encountered with younger (cough) devs."
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote: I think you meant to put the cough in a different place:
Good point!
Marc
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Are you by any chance using COBOL tools from MicroFocus? Just wondering. Nudge nudge, wink wink.
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Well, it wouldn't be him, it'd be the other dev he talked with. She is the COBOL dev.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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Basildane wrote: Are you by any chance using COBOL tools from MicroFocus?
Me, no. I'll ask her though. 
Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: isciplines including good code structure, commenting practices, readability, maintainability, etc. Things that transcend the language
Are you trying to push some Methodology?
Are you writing a book or something?
Is this some lead up to you saying, "And now, introducing my book on Agile Scrum..."?
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raddevus wrote: saying, "And now, introducing my book on Agile Scrum..."?
I read that too fast and didn't see the "R" in "Scrum".
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Is that new? I could've sworn I've never seen that "R" in there before (as in, ever)...
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