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Thanks for that ... helps explain my continued struggle with the "irrational" (and products shipped with Phillips).
(And I "should" retire; but I'm not rational either).
"(I) am amazed to see myself here rather than there ... now rather than then".
― Blaise Pascal
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I never heard that but what I did read is that Ford wanted to use them in their cars and have full rights to the design but Robertson refused to give it up.
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Notice that all the screws in a mechanical wristwatch are slotted. There is a reason for this.
The original Phillips driver was designed for building aluminum aircraft. It was designed to cam out before the material being screwed into was damaged. Later cross-drive screws, e.g., frearson, were mostly not designed to cam out.
As others have said, with cross-drive screw heads the bit is self-centering. It isn't with slotted screw heads, but the slot is easily restored. If you ruin a cross drive head you need a screw extractor.
All the above are much inferior to Torx.
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Fantastic explanation. Now the common camming problem actually makes sense. That's why it happens so much-- because it's engineered to happen. Thanks for the enlightenment.
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Except for true Robertson, of course.
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My main thought is that for every other type of screw, you need EXACTLY the correct size of screwdriver. So, for a general life, you need 6-8 sizes of Phillips, 8-10 of Torx, 4-6 of Robertson, but you can by with about three flat blade screwdrivers (small, medium, large). Specifically, in electronics, NO, I can think of no reason for a standard screw.
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Sizing issue is another great point. Thanks
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We use slotted screws on some products because it is easier to remove contamination & debris in the field.
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I find Robertson (square head) screws work best. You can put them on the driver and they stay there. Wonderful for drywalling. They are common in Canada, but do not seem to be used much in the USA. (Correct me if I am wrong).
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In part, the Robertson screw didn't catch on in the US because after lengthy negotiations Henry Ford refused to license it for his cars.
Re sizes of slotted screws: A pro is that slotted screw heads can be turned with almost anything, such as coins, knife blades, putty knives, tin can lids, and so on. The corresponding con is that non-commercial users rarely have a screw bit that actually fits the screw they are trying to turn.
Moreover, the sides of the blade are often tapered, rather than parallel planes, with the thought that the bit can be wedged into a range of slot widths. But as a consequence of the wedge shape, the bit tends to cam out.
Pro screwdrivers are sold that have exactly the right tip width for, say, the standard slot on #6 wood screws, and have parallel sides. A pleasure to use.
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Thank you for your comment. The Model T was built a century ago, and one would think it of no relevance to the screws we use today. But such might actually be the case.
I still prefer the Robertson because once you place the screw on the bit of a power tool, it becomes a one-handed operation. This frees up the other hand to hold things in place.
If you can tell me how to do that with a Phillips or a slotted screw driver, I am very much interested.
Phillips Screwdriver Versus Robertson Screwdriver[^]
modified 5-Mar-18 10:01am.
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Quote: If you can tell me how to do that with a Phillips or a slotted screw driver, I am very much interested
Of course you can't. No doubt Robertson screws are great. However, all modern designs share the same doesn't-fall-off property, even the old Allen, with the added advantage that instead of four possible insertion angles, you get six, eight, or even twelve.
If there hadn't been further advances in screw drive since P.L. Robertson, his design would be in common use everywhere. But even recently, Torx II is a big improvement over Torx.
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Perhaps it is time for me to experiment with some of the newer designs. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Here in the Rockies-US, square are available. I preferred the star head screws, work ever better than the square. Available in Home Depot and Lowe's.
Of all big box home supply stores, I preferred Menards. Sadly, no Menards available here. Next is Home Depot, then Lowe's.
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I will have to give the star head screws a try. I guess I don't have to stick with square. Thanks for the feedback.
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Correction, as requested:
You have "square head" but Robertson is NOT square it is tapered. If you continued the lines of the corners you would have an elongated pyramid shape. That taper is their essence and why they are so effective in holding a screw and not chattering.
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Personally I've never heard it called standard head. In the US, every where I go, it always referred to as "flat-head". So I will call it as that. There are two situation where I choose the screws.
1. Metal work, the screws mostly comes in with flat-head (slot as you put it), Phillip, or torx. My preferences are Torx, phillips then flat because on metal all holes are predrilled.
2. Wood work, the screws come in many types. My preferences are: Star, Square or Phillip. Torx is very rare for wood. I will not use flat-head screws. I will reluctantly use Phillips if I can't find squares or stars.
Aside from the crews themselves and for other purposes then what it was originally designed for, the flat-head screw driver is the most useful tool among all other types of screw driver.
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Flat head refers to the shape of the screw head, not the shape of the slot where you put the screwdriver. See the "Screw Head Shapes" section of this[^] web page.
I'm retired. There's a nap for that...
- Harvey
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Have you ever used, or even seen, a true Robertson screw and driver?
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Saw this in my roaming through the Google news:
"BBC Studios is developing a six-episode TV series inspired by Terry Pratchett’s Discworld books."
Found it here: Terry Pratchett's Discworld is Being Adapted to TV
If this is true, I may just have to subscribe to BritBox or something
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, navigate a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects! - Lazarus Long
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And Amazon is making Good Omens - which should be pretty damn good!
Bad command or file name. Bad, bad command! Sit! Stay! Staaaay...
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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didn't they do a movie already? The story with the tourist (and of course luggage)
- but from memory was a bit chopped down from the book.
Signature ready for installation. Please Reboot now.
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This[^] is pretty useful.
This space for rent
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stoneyowl2 wrote: I may just have to subscribe to BritBox or something Don't need that - just use a VPN - you can get most Brit TV doing that plus Hulu shows a lot of Brit TV (including Corrie!).
Keep your friends close. Keep Kill your enemies closer.
The End
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