Survey Results

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It cost too much Oleksandr Kucherenko11-Jun-03 23:49 Oleksandr Kucherenko 11-Jun-03 23:49  First problem: all devices that currently support Microsoft cost too much and can not be used freely by organizations. Second problem: they are not too popular, to become ala standard for mobile computer users. If microsoft will start to support mobile devices like Palm computers then .NET platform become a popular in business areas and in world at all... This is my opinion on current day. Microsoft must support popular mobile devices first. Good Luck Alex Kucherenko Re: It cost too much Chris Ormerod12-Jun-03 0:57 Chris Ormerod 12-Jun-03 0:57  Maybe 3 months ago pocket PCs were too expensive, but now they are about the same (even cheaper) than palm Pilots. (Australian Prices) Dell Axim X5 - $463 Dell Web Site[^] (They were actually in the sunday paper for $399) Palm Zire 71 - $598 Dick Smith Web Site[^] - Look for Cat ID V6026 (Should be on the front page) And the Dell has 32MB ram and the Palm only 16MB. Take into account the reduced costs of programming for a Pocket PC using the Mobile Toolkit for .Net as opposed to some obscure 3rd party toolkit for Palm pilots, and I think most organisations will realise that it really is worth it. And yes I will agree that Palm pilots are more popular at the moment, but they have been around for a few years. Most are probably coming up for replacement and I think most will be replaced with Pocket PCs. Just my 2 cents. Cheers, Chris Re: It cost too much Chris Ormerod12-Jun-03 1:02 Chris Ormerod 12-Jun-03 1:02  Ok that Zire is probably got more features than the Dell, but have a look for the Palm M130, has about the same features (no camera), but only 8MB ram and it is still $478 Sorry about the extra post, but I probably looked a bit stupid comparing the dell to a Palm with a colour camera. Cheers, Chris. Re: It cost too much Oleksandr Kucherenko12-Jun-03 1:15 Oleksandr Kucherenko 12-Jun-03 1:15  Camera? Sounds? MP3 players? what for? for business it's not needed at all!!! camera resolutions is low, that is why this is not good point. Sound/MP3 - battary charge give live for sound on 1-3 hours... Palm without sound can work up to 4 weeks without recharge. Palm - for business (and only for business, exclude last year models) Pocket Pc - to show how cool guy I am?! you can make business on it too, but most part of functionality is multimedia one. Good Luck Alex Kucherenko Re: It cost too much Chris Ormerod12-Jun-03 1:27 Chris Ormerod 12-Jun-03 1:27  No, the Palm Zire is the one with all the crazy gadgets, Camera etc. The Dell is nothing more than a machine that goes bing. I don't see much multimedia functionality on it apart from a small beep sound when you click etc., definitely no more than that of the standard Palm pilots (m130) etc. And to be clear, I own neither, and probably never will or at least not in the short term anyway. Cheers, Chris. Re: It cost too much Philip Patrick12-Jun-03 4:03 Philip Patrick 12-Jun-03 4:03  Alex Kucherenko wrote: Camera? Sounds? MP3 players? what for? for business it's not needed at all!!! Business people are not listening music? Plug your headphones and throw away (or just don't buy) an MP3 player. But its really up to the person who's gonna use it. I do have Pocket PC (IPAQ) and glad to have it. Philip Patrick Web-site: www.stpworks.com "Two beer or not two beer?" Shakesbeer Re: It cost too much Oleksandr Kucherenko12-Jun-03 4:19 Oleksandr Kucherenko 12-Jun-03 4:19  Philip Patrick wrote: Business people are not listening music? Plug your headphones and throw away (or just don't buy) an MP3 player. I does not mean that this is not realy need for person. But for business it a little useless. If you want to show presentation for customer you will try to show it on "big" desktop computer, instea of PDA. Games also useless for business, but needed for person relax... please don't mix business and personal interests. Business interest: scheduling, notes, documents reading, special commercial software... Personal interest: listen music, play games, read books... that all is needed for person relax... I does not say that you can not combine business interest with personal... Microsoft must be first oriented on business, not for multimedia... Now i saw in mobile toolkit devices which is not common for PDA in business. Good Luck Alex Kucherenko Re: It cost too much Oleksandr Kucherenko12-Jun-03 1:09 Oleksandr Kucherenko 12-Jun-03 1:09  Pocket PC - mean Windows CE Window CE - mean Microsoft Palm - mean Palm OS Palm OS - mean NOT Microsoft!!! it's a pity but that mean that we will never see Palm version of .NET. Palm has a greater number of users and software. Windows CE has many devices but all of them in most cases multimedia devices, not a business one. Minimal Palm cost 75$ - minimum Windows CE device - 150$ windows ce devices need more system resources than Palm OS use. BTW: it's no difference which device you use. Main is that device do it's job well (job for which it was purchase). Good Luck Alex Kucherenko Re: It cost too much Chris Ormerod12-Jun-03 1:45 Chris Ormerod 12-Jun-03 1:45  I was under the impression that Pocket PC Machine == Pocket PC 2002 OS, as seen in the emulator that comes with VS.Net 2003. Is this correct? And following on from that I was under the impression Windows CE != Pocket PC 2002. Alex Kucherenko wrote: it's a pity but that mean that we will never see Palm version of .NET. Exactly, which means to develop for Palm, developers will need to learn yet another Framework / Pardigm for programming for the Palm. Does a Palm pilot have a internet browser? If so then Mobile ASP.Net pages should work, they even work on my Nokia 3330. I assume your prices are US$? If so I assume you are quoting the Palm m101 or similar (around AUD$170-$200) ? But what Pocket PC are you quoting? And like I said in the other post, I don't even own one of these, but I will probably have to develop for one in the future, and my preference is to use the .Net framework and this means I can support Nokia phones, Pocket PCs, Desktops, microwaves all with the one codebase, but if I develop for Palm I have to develop a seperate app using one of the toolkits for palm which means my bosses will have to pay for me to learn how to do that whereas I have already learnt to do it in .Net. Just one thought on a Palm version of .Net, the .Net framework and SqlServer for Pocket PC are around 3-4 MBs, maybe there is a possibility for somebody to implement this on Palm OS just like they are doing for Linux? (( Sorry not trying to annoy you or flame you or anything, this all just started because I wasn't sure if you realised that Palm devices were >= Pocket PC devices in Price )) Cheers, Chris. Re: It cost too much Oleksandr Kucherenko12-Jun-03 2:12 Oleksandr Kucherenko 12-Jun-03 2:12  Microsoft create good products for mobile devices like SQL Server for Pocket PC... but why they make good solutions only for devices which support microsoft? I'm not specialized on Pocket PCs, but i think that most part of them use Windows CE. May be i'm not right at all 100% but I think that I am close enough. I'm owner of Palm computer and it's a pity that i can not use .NET for it. Only when Microsoft start to support my device, only after that i can say that Microsoft Mobile toolkit is good enough. Good Luck Alex Kucherenko Re: It cost too much Anonymous13-Jun-03 15:29 Anonymous 13-Jun-03 15:29  Dell AXIM with color screen, microphone, speaker and 300MHz processor- $199: http://www.dell.com/us/en/dhs/products/model_pda_axim5_entry.htm Show me Palm for this price with similar features. ok, we're on the right way... converdb11-Jun-03 9:35 converdb 11-Jun-03 9:35  Html applications... .Net intermediate lenguage... virtual machines... Dumb terminal applications... Univac... Valves... Eniac... Mark I... What's the next? abacus? programmers asking for coding time on the mainframe? we're going back, the next microsoft discovery could be teletype applications, isn't that? Take a look at this package from the next release of .net framework: system.interrupts.services.int13h.writeteletypestring or this one: system.config.sys.devices.loadHigh And just remember, moore's law are deeply breathing at your back... It's coming the time where the silycon won't hide stupid design. ps: Someone could explain what the hell is intel centrino but same bullshit with different pinout??, I sincerily ask this because I know what essencially it is, but I can't see the advantages. Please visit: www.transmeta.com for powerful hardware x86 emulators... Just three words: void main(void) Re: ok, we're on the right way... vic_zy12-Jun-03 20:56 vic_zy 12-Jun-03 20:56  system.interrupts.services.int13h.writeteletypestring .net framework Mobile Internet Toolkit chinhow10-Jun-03 15:23 chinhow 10-Jun-03 15:23  It's about the mobile internet toolkit. Take into consideration, normally design a web page using asp which can be browsed by the internet explorer. Now Microsoft released a new version of toolkit, It's Mobile Internet Toolkit which is an extension of asp.net, design TWO layer of web pages, design first layer web pages which is browse by desktop Internet Explorer/Netscape, and second layer which is browse by the mobile phone / PDA pre-installed browser, the web pages design would be automatically fit to the size of the mobile phone / PDA. What do you think about this market? Too vague ed welch9-Jun-03 22:48 ed welch 9-Jun-03 22:48  Sorry, but I think this survey is too vague to be useful. "Wireless" could be interpretted to mean *anything*: Wi-Fi, SMS, GMS, bluetooth, infrared, FM radio Re: Too vague AntonS9-Jun-03 23:49 AntonS 9-Jun-03 23:49  Problem even not that this too vague, but also that survey question/set of possible answers are incorrect in a bit. What I should answer if I produce software which could not be wireless enabled by design ??? By my opinion this survey cut off 50% of developers just because there is no answer option like: "I like wireless, but it is not applicable for my software" Of course we can use "optional text answer" - but it is not the same Not too vague, concept not technology Paul Watson11-Jun-03 21:46 Paul Watson 11-Jun-03 21:46  Well I will defend the survey by saying that what you have listed are simply implementations of the concept. The survey is asking about the concept of wireless, are you developing an application which makes use of any wireless technology. There is very little conceptual difference between WiFi, BlueTooth, FM radio and GMS. They are just different protocols and hardware. Paul Watson Bluegrass Cape Town, South Africa Chris Losinger wrote: i hate needles so much i can't even imagine allowing one near The Little Programmer Re: Not too vague, concept not technology ed welch13-Jun-03 0:36 ed welch 13-Jun-03 0:36  but an application using the SMS protocol wouldn't even be remotely similar to an app that uses bluetooth. They use different technology, have different user requirements, are used in different fields. I don't see how lumping all these diverse types of applications into the one category can give useful statistics. Re: Not too vague, concept not technology Adrian Edmonds15-Jun-03 9:22 Adrian Edmonds 15-Jun-03 9:22  Where I live, Bluetooth is illegal. Wonderful. Sell: Casiopeia E10-P, almost never used Daniel Turini9-Jun-03 9:08 Daniel Turini 9-Jun-03 9:08  I bought a Casiopeia E-10P some time ago to see what was all that buzz about. The only useful applications I saw were: 1. Make friends say “Cool! I want one!” 2. Use it to read and answer e-mails on the bathroom. 3. Play solitaire on the bathroom. 4. Play solitaire on a meeting and pretend to be taking notes (I really used it a lot for this). This has the advantage that you’ll seem the guy who listens to everyone’s opinion and then emit something really intelligent and balanced after everyone fought for stupidities. 5. Use it to schedule solitaire sessions meetings so I don’t forget them. So, as I almost don’t go to meetings anymore, this doesn’t have any utility and is taking dust. If I, one of the geekest guys on Earth, didn't find this useful, how many users will? Kant wrote: Actually she replied back to me "You shouldn't fix the bug. You should kill it" Re: Sell: Casiopeia E10-P, almost never used Tom Welch12-Jun-03 5:44 Tom Welch 12-Jun-03 5:44  We bought 3 iPaqs for our IT department to try out before committing to develop a mobile data app for our remote sales reps. After a few weeks using them we had a meeting to discuss our stance on the project. When the department head asked what the devices were good for we all agreed... solitare. Project scrapped. Money saved. What is Mobile/Wireless development ? Maximilien9-Jun-03 8:07 Maximilien 9-Jun-03 8:07  Stupid question, but I have to ask ... What is it beside not having the computer network plugged into a wall socket ? Maximilien Lincourt For success one must aquire one's self Re: What is Mobile/Wireless development ? kaschimer9-Jun-03 8:19 kaschimer 9-Jun-03 8:19  Mobile/Wireless doesn't just apply to laptop computers with wireless NICs. It can also apply to smart phone, pocket pc, palm, cell phone, etc. Basically, anything that can be either disconnected from a network or not traditionally connected to one in the first place. PocketPC development is a classic example. Not all PPCs have wireless capability, but they can periodically be connected to a sychronizing computer where their data can be synchronized with a company-wide database server. Consider a salesforce application, where the salesperson would download the latest product specs to their PDA, go sell some stuff (and enter the sales on their PDA), then reconnect at the end of the day and have their sales propagated up to the central DB server. I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. -- J. R. R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring Re: What is Mobile/Wireless development ? Maximilien9-Jun-03 8:28 Maximilien 9-Jun-03 8:28  but, this is not something new, people have palm pilots, and other electronic appointment thingies for some years now. There's must be more than data synching. Maximilien Lincourt For success one must aquire one's self Re: What is Mobile/Wireless development ? kaschimer9-Jun-03 8:36 kaschimer 9-Jun-03 8:36  Now your question becomes more specific... Previously you said that this must be something more than just unplugging the computer from the wall. Yes, I agree, it's a lot more than data synching. That was just one example I was using. And yes, people have been using palm pilots and other miscellaneous devices for years. But I believe the question that was raised in this poll is the following: "What are your thoughts on mobile/wireless development? Microsoft is rallying developers to consider adding wireless/mobile access to their application development projects. Are you thinking about it?" This being said, it is perhaps important to realize that special tools and/or special techniques are required to develop applications for wireless/mobile devices. And there are also some limitations. Just my 2p... Rabid K "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

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