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Hey, testing is for QA and i feel very sorry for you if u doing tests and coding, im not talking about unit tests of cource, Its like write code and clean floor or cooking at same time.
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So, you just type in the code, compile it, then ship the product off to QA.
You are very lucky. I used to have to compile it and run it. Do you know on the odd occasion I even had to click on a button or two, just to make sure the event handling code worked correctly. It was a different world back then, we even used to call that testing.
It must be a very nice feeling, being able to write perfect code, first time, every time. Have you offered your services to the major software vendors? I'm sure they would snap you up in an instant.
Henry Minute
Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain
Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?"
“I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Im not sure what u talking about, i did not tell u that i just type code and ship to QA so this is your pure imagination i guess, i see u tryed to be a little bit funny but think about that - imagine we have old system, it is working since 2000 year, it is using .net 1.1, there was no ajax libs, unit testing nothing, all this years system was grow up to 5000+ customers. Your post is good for writing NEW code, new product, with new technologies, u used to comfort so u never will understand my situation. When i change something, add new feature, or fix, i cant spent time to test becouse i will spend 2x time for testing, my change can broke something in so unexpected place. So we have QA for this, they working twice more then me, even with my basic tests. See that happens that it could be a lot of specific situations that u just did not meet in your life.
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I'm one of the lucky ones because not only do I write the applications, I also train our users (Air Traffic Controllers & Technications) at their facilities (Airport Control Towers)
Steve
_________________
I C(++) therefore I am
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Ah, that would explain the high suicide rate there 
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only at sites that do NOT have our equipment 
Steve
_________________
I C(++) therefore I am
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What company you work for? I used to work in Thales on this subject and I've never seen an user...
I might be tempted to apply to your company if it is European based.
Cheers
Federico
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sorry, we're in the Los Angeles area...the company is NBP (New Bedford Panoramex)
Steve
_________________
I C(++) therefore I am
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For the first time in many years I'm truly happy again in my job and now I realise it is to do with being able to interact with the users and see how they use the software and what works best for them.
For the 6-7 years before this position, I was part of teams where I was blind as to where my piece of the puzzle fitted in within the whole picture. I repeatedly asked for the opportunity to visit clients on site and at least see them in action with the software, but NOOOOOOOOOOO!
Again before that I was happy for 4 years in a place where we used the developed software internally and I got immediate feedback.
Having an engineering and analytical background myself, I have always been able to serve the clients better when I could talk to them and see what they were doing. I would sometimes come up with solutions that they had not even thought of. Only then would things translate to software! And we would both be happy.
How can you confine a developer to a cubicle and expect your software to answer the real problems of the client? If that is not bad enough, what is worse is that in places where I worked and they did just that, the Functional Requirements Specification (FRS) document would come to me AFTER I had finished 80% of the work. Indeed the Business Analyst would ask me what should go into the FRS. It's a joke believing we give developers enough understanding for them to be able to sit and develop a mature, well thought out solution in a cubicle.
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If you don't talk to your users, no-one else is going to tell you what works / doesn't work. What they are actually doing with your software. What they don't / can't / won't use.
If you listen to what they say, then all out jobs get easier.
Supporting them is a pain, but it is worth doing right - and at least the users know that the person on the other end actually has run the software, rather than reading from a script on a cheaper continent...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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Best End-User Support ? End the user
Yeee 
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End the user - End our jobs...
Happy user == more work for us.
Think about it: Do you go back to a restaurant if you felt you got sh*t service and food? Or try somewhere else instead?
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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if i wanted a opinion from you - i would've made a prank call to 911.
Yeee 
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If you didn't want an opinion, why respond? 
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together.
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we need the users more than the users need us, imo
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Yup, this is one of those cases where it should be "goes without saying". How on earth anyone makes software that is worth a damn when they don't talk to their users regularly seems impossible to me.
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea”
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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But, but what about the big software factories where you have a bunch of code monkeys, then teams leads then BAs and the BAs are the only ones to talk to the users and the PM are the approvers - oh yeah I forgot, they turn out crap most of the time.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Yup and if they gave a damn they'd involve the developers in meetings with the customers even if it was sitting in the background and keeping their mouths shut and rotating through all the developers if necessary. Any developer who has any effect whatsoever on the usability of code to the end user and who has not looked a user in the eye as they describe the trouble they have with using the program is a crap developer who will learn nothing and make horrendous design mistakes over and over.
P.S. how's Sherlock doing these days? 
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea”
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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John C wrote: how's Sherlock doing these days?
The moniker actually came from this book The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress[^] but then I'm an old fart who grew up on RAHs stuff.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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Ahh...I too grew up on RAH and I remember that computer well. I guess I should have asked how's Mannie doing these days. 
“If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people together to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work, but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea”
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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John C wrote: how's Mannie doing these days
Still scratching his arse with his tin hand!
I just started reading the Uplift series, Sundiver, I look forward to the rest of the series although I'm pretty sure I have read some of them in isolation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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That's what I would have picked.
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There's no CListCtrl either!
It was ever thus, the Neophiles will always rush out and get 'The Latest Thing' at a high price and with all the inherent faults - Dalek Dave.
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In my case Developer team is different than Support team
So, It is not common we talk with the final user. Normally we do it with the consultants, and with the marketing department. And they with the users.
I think if the company is small, the team has to do my tasks and could have contact with the users. 
luisnike19
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