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Good topic to poll Vihar Patel8-Jul-04 19:37 Vihar Patel 8-Jul-04 19:37  I like this topic and I think, should be the topic for discussion at this time... I would like to become CTO Vihar Patel Re: Good topic to poll pumi15-Jul-04 23:06 pumi 15-Jul-04 23:06  I'll say - goto POOL_MY_BOY -- PUMI Lead Developer & TPL James R. Twine7-Jul-04 6:10 James R. Twine 7-Jul-04 6:10     I have experience as a Lead Developer and a "TPL" (Technical Project Lead).  The TPL position was very nice; 85% technical (coding, mentoring, documentation, etc.), 15% administrative (approval of time sheets, estimates, project plans, etc.).    Experience has taught me that I am best suited as the head developer that implements the foundations of a software system based on the designs of the Architect (this kind of person is also known as a "Builder").  I have done some work in an architectural capacity before, and I am not as good at it as I am doing real code.  Usually, I cannot design without seeing actual code in my head, and that is generally a bad trait for an architect to have.    Thankfully, I have learned lesson this early on, and that prevents me from f-ing up some serious project up by getting in over my head.    I have no desire to be one of those people that is "promoted to their level of incompetence".  Coding is what I do best; I would like to stay here.  Besides, the money is still here... People are willing to pay my rates, I have no need to change.    Peace! -=- James Tip for SUV winter driving survival: "Professional Driver on Closed Course" does not mean "your Dumb Ass on a Public Road"! Articles -- Products: Delete FXP Files & Check Favorites Re: Lead Developer & TPL Michael P Butler7-Jul-04 8:53 Michael P Butler 7-Jul-04 8:53  James R. Twine wrote: Usually, I cannot design without seeing actual code in my head, and that is generally a bad trait for an architect to have. That's where I've messed up in the past. Trying to keep seeing entire projects in my head. Its a hard lesson, but one that makes better developers out of us all. Michael CP Blog [^] Text Answers Corinna John7-Jul-04 1:06 Corinna John 7-Jul-04 1:06  Great optional answers today! World Domination Nice idea, but which world? If I had to rule this world, I would have to spend years managing revolutions. Somewhere out there might be a better world to dominate CLifeCtrl Is that a control that controls the user's life? First step to world domination... Leader of the free World Does a free world need a leader? Is a world with a leader still free? Re: Text Answers peterchen7-Jul-04 1:55 peterchen 7-Jul-04 1:55  Corinna John wrote: Is that a control that controls the user's life? First step to world domination... I guess s/he's just looking for control over his own life we are here to help each other get through this thing, whatever it is Vonnegut jr. sighist || Agile Programming | doxygen Re: Text Answers Nick Seng7-Jul-04 15:13 Nick Seng 7-Jul-04 15:13  To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilization, to boldly go where no man has gone before Somebody's been watching too much Star Trek "if you vote me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" - Michael P. Butler. Re: Text Answers Joel Holdsworth10-Jul-04 9:24 Joel Holdsworth 10-Jul-04 9:24  Yes I like that one Joel Holdsworth Re: Text Answers Daniel Turini11-Jul-04 11:03 Daniel Turini 11-Jul-04 11:03  Nick Seng wrote: To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilization, to boldly go where no man has gone before Hehehe... I posted it because I always thought that this was a strong career goal Yes, even I am blogging now! Eventually.... Anonymous6-Jul-04 7:49 Anonymous 6-Jul-04 7:49  >>To leave the IT world entirely 1. If I make $$$ as Paul Allen did, I will leave the IT world entirely 2. everyone shall leave the IT world entirely whe the day is coming eventually. Middle management Navin6-Jul-04 3:07 Navin 6-Jul-04 3:07  I wouldn't mind staying a developer, so long as they keep paying me, but I can see myself getting burned out from coding after a while. Management wouldn't be bad, but dealing with people and all the associated issues (I need three weeks of vacation! I don't get along with Fred! etc., etc.) might get annoying. So the answer is middle management. My boss's boss has the sweet job, dealing mostly with planning, organization, and deciding which projects are cool enough to pursue. But yet not all of the pressure of being in charge of the whole company. (Or, at least, that's how I perceive it. His view may be completely different.. ) "Fish and guests stink in three days." - Benjamin Franlkin Not Important Corinna John6-Jul-04 1:37 Corinna John 6-Jul-04 1:37  What is career, what is so great about it? Rising to a "better" position in a company is horror! It means more work, more travelling, more responsibility, less vacations. Why should I want that? 1) I don't want to be important. I want to get away from work for one or two days whenever I need to, without anybody missing me. 2) I don't want too much responsibility. If something goes wrong, I don't want to be the poor dog who is kicked for it. 3) I want a job that is not too boring, but leaves enough free time every week. 4) I want to do developing _and_ coding (not only developing and not only coding). That sums up to "Never become a manager for anything". If one day there won't be any IT job anymore (all developing is done in asia or by computers themselves), I'll do something completly different. Gardening looks interesting to me, how about that? [EDIT]According to the comments, some people really believed this! Of course I don't like to code stuff other people have planned, and of course I don't accept stupid decisions of so called managers.[/EDIT] Re: Not Important dandy726-Jul-04 2:25 dandy72 6-Jul-04 2:25  > 1) I don't want to be important. > I want to get away from work for one or two days whenever I need to, without anybody missing me. That pretty guarantees that you'll be one of the first ones to go when the company you work for goes through tough times. Your coworkers will thank you for volunteering. Re: Not Important HairiDog10-Jul-04 7:24 HairiDog 10-Jul-04 7:24  >That pretty guarantees that you'll be one of the first ones to go when the >company you work for goes through tough times. Your coworkers will thank you for >volunteering. Not so! After 20 years of traveling up and down the career ladder, I have found the first to go are people with a contrasting view. The farther up the ladder you go the mode political it becomes. Often managers are required to abandon good programming practices to achieve financial and time goals. Eventually the internal war with common sense and corporate loyalty takes it toll. Often the smart person is the lucky guy at the bottom. Re: Not Important Michael P Butler6-Jul-04 2:38 Michael P Butler 6-Jul-04 2:38  Each to their own. However I enjoy the opportunity of making the big decisions, of guiding software forward with my own vision. Of course its not nice when I make a mistake but it is worth it to have your own ideas as the ones being implemented. Michael CP Blog [^] Arrrh the Ostrich method, NormDroid6-Jul-04 2:46 NormDroid 6-Jul-04 2:46  Keep you head buried in the sand and hope for the best. Sounds like a few people I *used* to know. For the less-young Paul Watson6-Jul-04 0:40 Paul Watson 6-Jul-04 0:40  And for those who set goals when I was still in nappies, how has it gone? Is the IT industry stable and structured enough for these kind of goals to be practical or too unpredictable to plan much beyond a year or two? regards, Paul Watson Bluegrass South Africa Ian Darling wrote: "and our loonies usually end up doing things like Monty Python." Crikey! ain't life grand? Re: For the less-young Michael P Butler6-Jul-04 2:59 Michael P Butler 6-Jul-04 2:59  Paul Watson wrote: how has it gone? Back in the halcyon days of the early eighties, I alway wanted to run my own computer software company writing games. Inspired by the likes of Delta 4[^] and Manic Miner[^], thats what I thought I wanted to do. Some failed efforts at creating a good game ('Jim's Party' and 'President') during my school years proved that I wasn't cut out for writing games. However being a big geek, I got myself a job writing business software which has satifised my developer urges. I'd always wanted to work for myself and my career has always been aimed towards that goal, with a few missteps along the way I finally managed it in 2000. So I pretty much achieved my goal, although I see harbour the dream of building a full development team from scratch. I've got a lot of ideas for software that I have neither the time or skill to write myself. Paul Watson wrote: Is the IT industry stable and structured enough for these kind of goals to be practical or too unpredictable to plan much beyond a year or two? You do have to learn to adapt your goals to circumstances, but that's true of life in general. Michael CP Blog [^] Re: For the less-young Michael A. Barnhart6-Jul-04 13:42 Michael A. Barnhart 6-Jul-04 13:42  Paul Watson wrote: And for those who set goals when I was still in nappies, how has it gone? Over all pretty good. I hate all of the politics in life but the joy in seeing the evolution of technology and it's integation (successes, skip the other) has been worthwhile. Paul Watson wrote: Is the IT industry stable and structured enough for these kind of goals to be practical or too unpredictable to plan much beyond a year or two? Paul, Your question can be answered a thousand different ways. If your goals are general and adaptable than yes it is stable and predictable. If your goals are very specific then a year or two is the most you can shoot for. My goal comming out of school (Structural Engineer) was to lead a new project in developing capability that had not been done before. I had that chance in the mid 80's and my company did win a multi-million dollar contract with my work specifically mentioned as a factor in the award. Had I been specific to that kind of work back in school I would probably never dreamed of the path it took me along. So you need to base your goals on what is needed both for your personal satisfaction and what is a realistic need of business or mankind (unless you are wealthy someone else does have to pay for it.) So saying you want to create the best relational database is likely to leave you disapointed. To say you wish to lead your team in the integration of the next major technology innovation to supply information for this or that is very achievable. For myself I can say I have two children I am proud of and most of my neighbors and associates feel I have been a good contributor to our world. I do not mind getting old. It beats all the other options that can think of. Rise out of development? Ravi Bhavnani5-Jul-04 11:27 Ravi Bhavnani 5-Jul-04 11:27  I would hardly characterize a move from development to management as a "rise".  If anything, it has to be step in the downward direction. /ravi My new year's resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | Freeware | Music ravib@ravib.com Re: Rise out of development? Michael Dunn5-Jul-04 19:43 Michael Dunn 5-Jul-04 19:43  I've worked for probably 5 or 6 devs who have been promoted to manager, and every single one has said "I'm still going to code". Only 1 has succeeded and even then he'll code maybe 2 days every month. --Mike-- Personal stuff:: Ericahist | Homepage Shareware stuff:: 1ClickPicGrabber | RightClick-Encrypt CP stuff:: CP SearchBar v2.0.2 | C++ Forum FAQ ---- Laugh it up, fuzzball. Bored now Michael P Butler5-Jul-04 8:20 Michael P Butler 5-Jul-04 8:20  I've pretty much had a go at everything on that list, apart Sales and Marketing and CTO because even I have my principles. Currently running my own company which is pretty much the pinnacle of my career. Its what I always dreamed of doing and now I've done it for the past few years, I'd like a new challenge. I'd like to have a go at managing a team of developers again, because my first attempt was a disaster on a massive scale - but I was younger then and still thinking like a programmer. I'd like to leave the IT world but the sad fact is, I've been doing it since 1988 and I don't know anything else and don't have a clue what else I'd enjoy doing. Michael CP Blog [^] Re: Bored now John R. Shaw8-Jul-04 13:38 John R. Shaw 8-Jul-04 13:38  Michael P Butler wrote: I'd like to leave the IT world but the sad fact is, I've been doing it since 1988 and I don't know anything else and don't have a clue what else I'd enjoy doing. DITO INTP Re: Bored now Okeno Palmer9-Jul-04 11:03 Okeno Palmer 9-Jul-04 11:03  Pass on your knowledge and expertise to the young. Try teaching. .:. Keno .:. Re: Bored now Phil Harding9-Jul-04 13:20 Phil Harding 9-Jul-04 13:20  Okeno Palmer wrote: Pass on your knowledge and expertise to the young. Try teaching. It might be me, but I dont think you can teach people to be "good" developers, in any case I don't have the patience Phil Harding

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