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-- Wirth, 2015
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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What would he know about it?
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Googling I can't find anything that suggests he said that.
Other than that exactly which projects has Wirth been involved in for example say the last 20 years which would suggest that his knowledge extends into the practical for the current programming age?
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Well, he actually wrote that. You may find the paper at ETH ('computers and computing - a personal perspective').
The final revision of his Oberon project is dated 2007.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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CPallini wrote: final revision of his Oberon project is dated 2007.
Which was started in 1985. So really unclear what he would have been working on in the modern era.
CPallini wrote: Well, he actually wrote that.
So referenced
http://pascal.hansotten.com/uploads/wirth/ComputersAndComputing.pdf[^]
The comment you referenced seemed a throw away at the end of the piece.
"The unbelievable success of computers is mostly due to the incredible advances in
semiconductor fabrication. Processors are now available with immense power, and
memories with vast capacity. As in every other field of endeavor, abundance at low
cost invariably leads to wasteful design. This entails not only waste, but poor
products of declining quality. In particular software engineering now seems to be
the eldorado of splashing and wastefulness.
Dijkstra once claimed that it is the foremost duty of the software engineer to fight
(home-grown) complexity like the devil every minute. The same is now true also for
the hardware engineer"
What it fails to address at all, in the entire article, is the nature of business. He mentions 'business' several times but without much commentary and only in a historical context of which the latest tied reference is 1970.
The nature of business is to deliver products/services and to make money. It is not the point to deliver "elegant implementation[s]".
Matter of fact it is counter productive and contrary to the goal of businesses for a developer to spend time on processes for some subjective ideal which has no measurable impact at all on the goals of the business. This is demonstrated, as one example, by developers that get wrapped up in micro-optimizations without any analysis at all of what impact it would have on the actual product/service that needs to be delivered.
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Well, at least you've read it.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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You make it sound as if there is no place in this world for anyone who lets quality come ahead of profits. Or for that sake, let anything come ahead of profits.
That reminds me of the old saying that "A capitalist is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".
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trønderen wrote: You make it sound as if there is no place in this world for anyone who lets quality come ahead of profits. Or for that sake, let anything come ahead of profits.
What I said specifically said was "into the practical for the current programming age?"
That is defined by businesses. The vast, vast majority of software development occurs within that domain.
And businesses succeed by making profit. They die if they do not.
Certainly Wirth's view was different to business since he was a professor at Universities for the vast majority of his professional career. And yes university professors can certainly make claims about elegant code. And spend time investigating it.
trønderen wrote: That reminds me of the old saying that "A capitalist is a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing".
Just to provide the context that saying first appeared in a play by Oscar Wilde who was not brought up in a poor family.
Myself I like getting a paycheck every month. And the vast majority of people do. Indeed world wide there is a vast social strife that occurs when people do not get it and/or get less than what they feel that they should.
And that comes about because they want to buy things with the money which that provides.
So certainly many people do think that businesses provide value.
Certainly if a business decided to stop paying their employees for a month so the employees could make the software code more 'elegant' I suspect there would be problems.
modified 15-Jan-23 13:42pm.
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Rather exaggerated! Quite.
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Well, in 2015 Wirth was 81, maybe a little 'out of time'.
His 'A Plea for Lean Software', however, is dated 1995.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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A drone. Big wow.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Apollo was nothing without Starbuck.
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another groan!
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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Can anyone suggest why nearly all my innocuous comments or replies are initially flagged up as potential spam? Is this some dumb "AI" at work? If it is, it needs to properly retrained, methinks!
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I can't, but I have approved several.
Just be patient maybe?
And maybe post more thought-provoking messages rather than "innocuous" ones.
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By "innocuous" I meant "not offensive". Can you tell me what was potentially spammish about the comments I have made so far? It's almost as if I have been tagged as some sort of trouble maker, which I would deeply resent if that is the case.
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I find "innocuous" offensive.
Nope, nothing spammy in them that I recall. Just maybe not enough reputation points earned yet.
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Inoculated, yes. multiple times. Oh, wait. No harm!!!
"A little time, a little trouble, your better day"
Badfinger
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The spam filters here take a little time to recognise that you are not a spammer. The more comments that get accepted the sooner it will realise that you are OK, and let all messages pass. Just be patient.
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Wordle 559 5/6
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Wordle 559 3/6
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"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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