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den2k88 wrote: That said, I don't wear suits or ties and it shows. When I wear one it is painfully obvious that I'm not used to that dress code,
'business casual' - I add 20,000 to my ask. But places like that usually have additional adds so I price myself out.
'suit' - I would add 60,000 but been a really long time since I thought that was a possibility.
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Yep, workplace tour. Back in early 90s, a nationally-known company within walking distance of my home were looking for senior devs, and my tech qualifications fitted the bill perfectly. Went for interview, job sounded great, offices (the bit I saw) looked great, remuneration excellent. All seemed to be on track, so the team leader took me for a tour to show me where I'd be working. Walked into the department to see 1 desk at the front facing an array of about 25 desks facing the other way, just like a school classroom. 25 coders, all head-down, didn't look up when we walked in. Looked like a measured 1metre between desks, just like in an exam room. Never seen anything like it.
Ironically I got a contract there a few years later, (when it was a normal office) and was still supplying contract support to the project some 10 years after that, all the permie staff having left.
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I once interviewed for a company whose headquarters were in Buffalo NY but they had a satellite office in Albany. The commute to Albany would be about an hour but I was definitely needing work at that time.
So, they told me they wouldn't do a Zoom interview, I had to come in to the office at Albany. OK, I can do that.
In the Albany office, I was led into a conference room where the freaking interview was conducted over Zoom with me being the only person in the conference room.
F***ing morons. I was so pissed off that I tried my new line on them. When asked "what is an abstract class" I told them, "please don't ask me junior programming questions and that anyone can Google the answer for."
The silence was stunning and deeply satisfying. 
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Good answer Marc 
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming “Wow! What a Ride!" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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One upping here - I traveled 50+ k to an interview where the interviewer did not turn up, he called in sick, there was no alternative so I left. I then sent them an invoice for 3 hours work - and they paid it. I declined the second request for an interview.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity -
RAH
I'm old. I know stuff - JSOP
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That's how to handle it!
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I once got asked how I'd reverse a string. "String.Reverse, of course."
Well, what if you were working in an environment that didn't have that? "I'd start looking for a new platform."
Then went through the algorithm. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Got called back later that morning by the headhunter saying, "They loved you! Can you come back this afternoon for a follow-up interview?"
At the same time as above, had an interview with another organization. Get there, nobody's out by the reception area. Wandered down the hall, found someone and explained I was here for an interview.
While waiting back in the reception area, saw a bookshelf filled with self-help management titles. My initial thought was, "these guys don't know what they're doing, and are grasping at straws."
Turns out, I was right. Unfortunately for me, I thought position #2 would be a better use of my skills from the standpoint of being more socially responsible, and took it. Oops.
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When I was getting out of the Air Force I interviewed at a lot of places. I went back to the recruiter after interviewing at MCI and told them not to send anyone else there. MCI had zero clue what they needed and some of the staff looked like they should be on the street looking for tricks. I wasn't surprised when MCI folded a couple of years later.
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Ideally a work interview is for you to assess them as well! 
I always thought I should try to find out about their workplace during job interview. Never found out anything unfortunately, though all my workplaces were fine, so I guess there is that!
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Even Worse I once received a letter all but promising a position and requesting an interview. I took a day off of my then job and traveled and stayed at motel. Upon interview the fellow made it clear he had no interest in hiring me and even induced me to somehow conclude I was not a good fit. What a push-over I was. Afterward I regretted not pouring the pitcher of water which was on the desk over his head. It appears my cousins' prediction was correct when he stated the purpose of the letter was merely to fill the interviewers' quota.
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Yes, that happened to me.
On the other hand, sometimes I quickly realized they didn't consider me a good fit for the job.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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Some time ago I interviewed at a small company. Walking back to the boss's office, I figured out I didn't want to work there.
Everyone was wearing a dress shirt, pants, and a tie  .
Nobody was talking to each other in an open floor plan office.
No personal items on the desks.
The boss was retired military. He wanted me to be his "V.P. of Engineering", which meant I would run the office while he traveled and schmoozed looking for government contracts. For this he was offering 5K less than I was making at the time, the salary was non-negotiable, and I was expected to be on-call 24/7.
No ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.freetls.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) ing thank you.
Software Zen: delete this;
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My take is slightly different. I had a very successful interview at a company's London HQ and was offered the job to start in their North West office.
On the first day, I discovered that being abusive to colleagues was acceptable & almost expected.
Their lunch hour spread into a two hour boozing session, that ensued in stronger abuse, bordering on violence.
I went home that evening and wrote a resignation letter; drove back to the office and posted it along with my pass, never to return.
The following day, I received an email from the manager that confirmed I had made the correct decision.
The company has since gone out of business.
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More times than the ones I was found wanting. Usually it's a 60/40 between me not wanting to work for them and them not interested. I'm also quite aware of the fact that since I am honest to a fault and quite direct (not rude, unless provoked) some of those who told me that they are not interested did it just to save face - proof? Their bosses keep sending me invitations to interviews at least twice a year since 3 years.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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1. Be polite; you never know when you will need to work again with the people you are interviewing
with. They will remember "rude" if they encounter you again.
2. Do a good job, don't intentionally blow the interview. After all, you never know when you will
need to work with the people you are interviewing with. They will remember "idiot" if they
encounter you again.
3. Decline a follow up interview or offer, and don't mention your personal reasons, just don't go
back. If they encounter you later they will likely remember you as "the one that got away".
Be professional! You never know when you will need to work with the people you are interviewing with.
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WPerkins wrote: You never know when you will need to work with the people you are interviewing with.
Sometimes those are the problem in the interview, I strategically used rudeness to ensure I will not work with those people at all. The way I see it is: if we're going to work together and they have the position of power, I'm out. If I am in the position of power, bad for them. If we're at the same level, I gave all the ![Elephant | [mastadon]](https://codeproject.global.ssl.fastly.net/script/Forums/Images/elephant.gif) s I had during Halloween, sorry.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Yep. Most of my turnoff for companies have been related to requiring a suite and tie or requiring 60+ hours a week. At my last interview (back in the early 80s) I wore sneakers, corduroy jeans, a flannel shirt and Mork style rainbow suspenders with a "Don't Panic" button. They hired me and it turned out to be one of the best places I ever worked at.
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Yes, the interview is also for you to see if you want to work there.
Success is not having to work where you don't want to. Nevertheless keep your questions on discovering what the job is up to the point that you can credibly say if you are up to it or not. If you can't get to that point then you have encountered incoherence on their part or yours - it isn't going to work. You find out about toxic environments by listening and observing, not by asking questions that make you sound picky. Toxic bosses are very often fond of telling you so in the interview: 'I am a bit of a perfectionist' etc. Listen carefully to their spiel. You can smile politely as they say it but don't think that they don't mean it.
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I have, on a number of occasions been on job interviews that, during the interview, I decided I did not want the job. I then proceeded to shoot myself in the foot and lose the interview, sometimes regretting it.
The Interview is NEVER the time or place to decide whether or not you want the job. Always sell yourself throughout the process. Only when you have a firm offer in front of you is the time to decide whether or not you want the job.
Sometimes after thinking about it you may decide to give it a shot!
DonD
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Serious question, without trying to be too political. This isn't really about politics, but workplace quality.
I'm just asking you, as a developer, would you put up with working in that atmosphere?
By all appearances, from the little I've seen, I'd have been out the door before the ink was dry on Elon's buyout.
Not because of who he is or what he believes, but because of how he runs things.
My guess is his top talent has already fled.
To err is human. Fortune favors the monsters.
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Neither Musk's or Bezos' workplaces are humane. I also come from a country where work ethics is much more oriented towards well-being - our forefathers died on the streets under cannon fire to give us workers' rights, so my opinion on Tesla and Amazon's work practice is surely tinted.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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I live in the midwest US and over the many years of my career I've experienced a lot of the challenges of working in IT which have always been related to people having too much power & no accountability.
I've only seen short periods of time at any company where the environment is anything nice. When it gets real ugly, then you go to the next company. That part of the career has not been fun.
modified 2-Nov-22 13:14pm.
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In the 1920s our forefathers were shot with canister shots under order from the King beacause they were unionizing and striking. In the 1970s their descendants taught bosses to respect the workers with the help of machineguns, rifles and molotovs.
Now the situation is turning a bit for the worst thanks to imported 'work ethics' from abroad but we still have good workers laws.
GCS/GE d--(d) s-/+ a C+++ U+++ P-- L+@ E-- W+++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Yes, I'm sure that the at-will worker conditions here are a lot of what creates these problems.
modified 2-Nov-22 13:15pm.
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Pretty much all problems in the workplace (and beyond) are "related to people having too much power & no accountability" - not just in IT.
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