Click here to Skip to main content
15,885,546 members

Welcome to the Lounge

   

For discussing anything related to a software developer's life but is not for programming questions. Got a programming question?

The Lounge is rated Safe For Work. If you're about to post something inappropriate for a shared office environment, then don't post it. No ads, no abuse, and no programming questions. Trolling, (political, climate, religious or whatever) will result in your account being removed.

 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
Craig Robbins26-Oct-22 7:44
Craig Robbins26-Oct-22 7:44 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
jeron126-Oct-22 10:47
jeron126-Oct-22 10:47 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
Brian L Hughes27-Oct-22 13:04
Brian L Hughes27-Oct-22 13:04 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
Craig Robbins28-Oct-22 0:50
Craig Robbins28-Oct-22 0:50 
JokeRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
0x01AA26-Oct-22 9:05
mve0x01AA26-Oct-22 9:05 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
Randor 26-Oct-22 14:43
professional Randor 26-Oct-22 14:43 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
rob tillaart26-Oct-22 21:39
rob tillaart26-Oct-22 21:39 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
trønderen27-Oct-22 8:44
trønderen27-Oct-22 8:44 
When I was a boy, in the 1970, our neighbor shipped some old, worn records across the pond to have them photographically read/restored - he got the results as an open-reel magnetic tape. Today, I am quite sure that must have been 78rpm records - I very much doubt that the technology of the 1970s was good enough to do it on 'microgroove' vinyl records. He was very satisfied with the results, claiming to hear instruments (he specifically mentioned triangles) that he had never heard from the mechanical record. The stylus rides down in track, not touching the edges between the 'land' and 'valley' surface areas, so these edges are not worn with use. In stray light almost parallel to the surface let the original, the original, unworn edge could be read with an optical pickup, as the borderline between the lit land and the dark, shadowed valley.

I was considering if a similar technique would be possible on 'modern', stereo vinyl records. Some simple back-of-envelope calculations did tell me that it is not a project for your hobby workshop in your basement.

Say that you use a microscope with an image area 0.2 to 0.1 mm wide - vinyl grooves are typically packed 7.5/mm, on some records up to 10/mm. Assume the microscope ocular is a high-res 8K video sensor. Since the image must capture both sides of the groove (on a stereo record), there are 4K pixels to each side. This is to capture the amplitude of the signal: 12 bits of resolution at the very most. More like 11 bits on the average. Maybe you can steal an extra bit of resolution by looking at the bit on the edge: is it almost white, light gray, middle gray, dark gray, almost black?

What about the microscope optics? Can it, for an image area, 0.1 mm wide, provide a resolution of 8K pixels? That is pixel width of approx. 0.01 - 0.02 µm on the record surface. The traditional resolution measures, such as line pairs/mm is not directly transferable to sensor pixels, and I am by no means an expert in the field anyway, but from what I read about microscopes, that is significantly beyond the capabilities of traditional optical ones. The wavelength of the light limits the resolution. Maybe you can get closer by using short-wave UV?

... What fascinates me is that what I want to read out are no smaller details than the pickup stylus manages to read out! From a top quality, factory new vinyl record, it can deliver at least 60 dB S/N. That sure isn't more than 10 bits, but it does it almost without any effort. Why should it be so much more difficult to trace the edge optically than with a needle?

So I cannot let go the idea of reading the edges of the groove optically, as well as the simple mechanical stylus does it. Hoping that there will be some way of doing it, the next step is how to decode the waving edge forms to proper music. Even if we call it 'analog', it isn't as identical to the sound waves as we are led to believe; you need do correct for various curvature of the grove, various linear speed, separate the stereo channels, do proper de-emphasis, and then noise removal which might benefit a lot from the direct microscope images to identify e.g. dust particles ...

At the moment, the real show stopper seems to be how to read the curves optically with the same precision that we can to mechanically. The subsequent steps are, essentially, not that advanced math. I just would like to have it ready when the imaging problem is solved ... Smile | :)

(No, I am not expecting to be able to build such an optical pick up; I just use the problem as a mental toy.)
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
jsrjsr27-Oct-22 14:06
professionaljsrjsr27-Oct-22 14:06 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
trønderen27-Oct-22 21:15
trønderen27-Oct-22 21:15 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
jsrjsr28-Oct-22 7:39
professionaljsrjsr28-Oct-22 7:39 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
Randor 27-Oct-22 18:10
professional Randor 27-Oct-22 18:10 
GeneralRe: Stereo vinyl records Pin
Marvin@CDM27-Oct-22 7:27
Marvin@CDM27-Oct-22 7:27 
Generalworldle 278 Pin
jmaida26-Oct-22 6:39
jmaida26-Oct-22 6:39 
Generalweird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
Marc Clifton26-Oct-22 5:17
mvaMarc Clifton26-Oct-22 5:17 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
jmaida26-Oct-22 6:49
jmaida26-Oct-22 6:49 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
Marc Clifton27-Oct-22 3:17
mvaMarc Clifton27-Oct-22 3:17 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
honey the codewitch26-Oct-22 7:46
mvahoney the codewitch26-Oct-22 7:46 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
jmaida26-Oct-22 8:33
jmaida26-Oct-22 8:33 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
theoldfool26-Oct-22 10:49
professionaltheoldfool26-Oct-22 10:49 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
Marc Clifton27-Oct-22 3:17
mvaMarc Clifton27-Oct-22 3:17 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
Mark Starr27-Oct-22 2:53
professionalMark Starr27-Oct-22 2:53 
GeneralRe: weird hard-wired Internet connection issue Pin
englebart27-Oct-22 17:42
professionalenglebart27-Oct-22 17:42 
GeneralFallout 3 GOTY edition is free! Pin
honey the codewitch26-Oct-22 1:12
mvahoney the codewitch26-Oct-22 1:12 
GeneralRe: Fallout 3 GOTY edition is free! Pin
Kornfeld Eliyahu Peter26-Oct-22 1:24
professionalKornfeld Eliyahu Peter26-Oct-22 1:24 

General General    News News    Suggestion Suggestion    Question Question    Bug Bug    Answer Answer    Joke Joke    Praise Praise    Rant Rant    Admin Admin   

Use Ctrl+Left/Right to switch messages, Ctrl+Up/Down to switch threads, Ctrl+Shift+Left/Right to switch pages.