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Isn't it amazing how many ways they have found to sell you the same paste of nuts, fat and sugar?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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It is.
"In testa che avete, Signor di Ceprano?"
-- Rigoletto
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Even the gardens they go to are kinder.
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I've perused about 6 different packages (I don't want a UI package) and the web pages describing the setup process is like reading a magical scroll on burnt parchment and hoping the incantation doesn't summon a demon.
I mean seriously. It should be:
sudo apt install smtp-server
1. Answer a question about the hostname (or figure it out from the /etc/hostname file)
2. Answer a question about the default inbound and "from" email or default to "admin"
3. Firewall should be automatically configured.
Get back:
1. the server name (should be the same as the hostname!)
2. the ports (should be standard!)
3. the folder where inbound emails are put into
4. a list of useful CL options to change some basic config stuff.
But noooooo. Edit this, mangle that, sudo this and this and that and thar, pray here, prick finger for blood there, curse over yonder...
It's insane, it's inane, I don't understand why it has to be so complicated.
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I always get scared when seeing instruction videos on how to install software on Linux, about 90% of the video usually show a terminal screen with reams of scrolling text 
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RickZeeland wrote: about 90% of the video usually show a terminal screen with reams of scrolling text
Yup. And someone with an Indian accent mumbling through the process. 
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And this is precisely why Linux will never take over the desktop.
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This is one of the reasons.
The second one, shared by Mr Torvalds himeslf, is that software packaging in Linux distributions is "a major *fing pain in the a*" [quote].
IMHO Third one is that most software is unbelievably forked up: instead of a limited choice of workable software you have a vast selection of... half complete solutions in search of problems.
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Marc Clifton wrote: It's insane, it's inane, I don't understand why it has to be so complicated.
Some distro's come set up as different machines. I argued a week with my PC to get a decent webserver going; there's distro's with Apache/Mono/ASP.NET preinstalled. Was up and running minutes after install 
Search more, but dive less deep.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Getting .NET 6 installed wasn't too hard, except I discovered that flavors of Ubuntu > 18.04 don't work. Debian worked fine. Got a bunch of cool stuff working (article on Tuesday) but this mail server setup is nutso. I guess I will have to try following the DigitalOcean instructions to the letter.
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People keep telling me to use some form of Ubuntu.
I'm happy with Suse.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Marc Clifton wrote: Getting .NET 6 installed wasn't too hard, except I discovered that flavors of Ubuntu > 18.04 don't work. Debian worked fine.
Which is weird (and annoying), because Ubuntu is based on Debian...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Why? It's Linux, that's why.
If your neighbours don't listen to The Ramones, turn it up real loud so they can.
“We didn't have a positive song until we wrote 'Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue!'” ― Dee Dee Ramone
"The Democrats want my guns and the Republicans want my porno mags and I ain't giving up either" - Joey Ramone
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Did you notice how many machines run on it? You prolly have those at home
The thing is: I don't see the Linux.
At the developer level, the fight between Windows and Linux has been on several battlegrounds, such as Command Line Interface vs. GUI. I see no CLI in Android. It has been 42 different file systems vs. NTFS. None of the "anonymous" Linux devices I encounter let me choose the file system I consider the best; actually, I do not see the file system at all. The 'elegance' of the fork() concept, and great value of a process having its own isolated address space. That you can edit the configuration file of any application using a 7-bit ASCII editor. The 'elegance' of creating a file to act as a semaphore. The 'obvious' thing that "MyFile" and "Myfile" are two distinct files, and "My File" of course can't be used as a name because it would break the great majority of tools ...
I do not see any of the promoted 'qualities' of Linux (or *nix in general) in any of those anonymous Linux devices. If another OS had been playing in the background, I wouldn't know. Someone might give me a new smartphone (I need it; the glass is broken on my six year old one) with the same apps, same icons etc. as my old one, and if done properly, I wouldn't have been able to detect that the underlaying OS was Windows. Not until I checked the System information, or was told that I would have to download apps from MS Store. Noting in the ordinary user interface would have told.
So Linux is there, but you won't notice it. You have to read it somewhere else, or be told by an evangelist.
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You did not see.
We just using it, and not just Linux. I been here since QNX.
You go ahead and throw with discussions. Open source is democracy.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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It's because most Linux software is created by a loose association of many different people in their spare time.
Ever hear the old joke, a camel is just a horse that was designed by a committee.
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Quite the joke, since a camel is a horse with more endurance. The lump is also great on BBQ. Camels > horses.
It wasn't designed by politics, and it still competes with the top 1 commercial package called Windows, without similar funding. All I need runs under Linux, including all my games. Even C# there, with some differences your R&D may pay for itself.
The only thing that makes sure it won't work is Visual Studio.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: it still competes with the top 1 commercial package called Windows, without similar funding
When the 'idealistic' aspects of Linux need to be stressed, it is 'without similar funding'.
If the professional quality of Linux components need to be stressed, there are thousands of highly qualified developers working in companies with extremely high quality standards that contributes to the common good.
There is a lot of truth to the second point (except that lots of Linux software made during working hours may be a few notches below 'extremely high quality standards). Funding rarely is any problem for the great majority of Linux software. Thousands of companies let their employees spend part (or all) of their working time doing the development. I have myself worked on a handful of projects where the bosses knew the marketing value of "our software is free and open, and we welcome external contributions": If "open software" had not been included in the project description, we would have had a lot more difficulty raising our project on the internal funding scale - even when we couldn't possibly imagine who would care for the code we developed.
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trønderen wrote: When the 'idealistic' aspects of Linux need to be stressed, it is 'without similar funding'.
It is, isn't it?
trønderen wrote: If the professional quality of Linux components need to be stressed, there are thousands of highly qualified developers working in companies with extremely high quality standards that contributes to the common good.
Whoa, I was nearly impressed 
trønderen wrote: There is a lot of truth to the second point
Yeah, whatever.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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It's that way, so you can claim to be a guru once you get it working.
BTW, I got one sert up on linux 0.98 wat back when.
You should have tried it without the interwebs to search for documentation. It was painful.
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DrWalter PE wrote: It's that way, so you can claim to be a guru once you get it working.
I don't see the problem? Raspberri Pi's don't work on VB6.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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DrWalter PE wrote: You should have tried it without the interwebs to search for documentation. It was painful.
OMG. I can only imagine. Then again, the stuff on the interwebs is contradictory and often wrong.
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Marc Clifton wrote: I don't understand why it has to be so complicated
Because, if you don't know how to do it from the innate elegance of all things that are Linux, none of the other Linux afficionado's want you to find out. They're worried that your voice might drown theirs out in their worship at Linus' feet.
Software Zen: delete this;
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I did some WarCraft on some brand of Linux. Some Rimorld too.
The only thing I miss, is VS.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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