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Google is useless if there is not prior knowledge of the subject. Asking a 'human' is the best lazy way to get information without putting in the work.
I wonder if my 7 years stint as a programmer with no Internet access (only MSDN) have something to do with me using Google as a last resort (well, after that usually comes customer support or CP).
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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Back when there was comprehensive documentation, not just lists of topics on websites.
Basically, you had Reference and Guide, and they were discrete.
You also had to ship your product on floppy disks! 😊
I still remember that we had multiple stacks of 5.25 in floppy disks to the ceiling after some Microsoft major prerelease programs.
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I have never been a big fan of code project members coming to the Lounge to complain about other "stupid" members and their QA or programming questions. I think it is extremely unprofessional, to say the least.
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Sometimes it is warranted, but very rarely IMHO.
GCS d--(d-) s-/++ a C++++ U+++ P- L+@ E-- W++ N+ o+ K- w+++ O? M-- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5? X R+++ tv-- b+(+++) DI+++ D++ G e++ h--- r+++ y+++* Weapons extension: ma- k++ F+2 X
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That, and "answers" that barely qualify as comments.
"Before entering on an understanding, I have meditated for a long time, and have foreseen what might happen. It is not genius which reveals to me suddenly, secretly, what I have to say or to do in a circumstance unexpected by other people; it is reflection, it is meditation." - Napoleon I
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I agree with you. Being sarcastic is just plain rude.
A reply like " I am not sure. maybe you should go to Google or Stack Overflow and see if you can find the answer there." Particularly if the person asking the question, is doing that frequently.
ed
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you can just ignore those questions.
Or be a good person and make it a learning experience for them by helping them either pointing them to a good answer or suggesting solutions for their questions.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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If someone in meatscape asks for your help with a problem, do you then usually cut them off with "Go and fix the problem yourself - I won't help you!"?
Most times, when someone asks for help with a problem, the problem can be solved, given the right competence or knowledge. The "stupid" person asking for help doesn't possess that competence / knowledge; that is why he asks.
If you seriously think that any questions asked for lack of knowledge deserves to be rejected, then you reject to help with any solvable problem. The only "help" you are willing to give is to state that the problem is unsolvable.
Many times I have given up after hours of unsuccessful googling, asking people for help. I have so many times been met with "LMGTFY" that I have made it a habit to include in my question the terms I have tried googling. Yet, I have had people reply "You're just a silly fool - why didn't you google 'xyzzy' or 'abcde'??
Actually, one of the best ways of asking, if you don't want to be called a fool / idiot for googling the wrong terms, is to not ask for a solution, not tell what you have tried googling, but ask "What would be good google terms for obtaining information about xyzzy?"
Important notice:
I am certainly not referring to CP as a forum where you are typically cut off with a LMGTFY - most other forums are terribly much worse. If you have a real problem, people at CP are generally helpful, even in cases where googling the ideal terms would have lead to a solution.
The only requests regularly rejected at CP are of the kind 'please do my homework for me', but that comes from laziness, not that the asker is an idiot. Besides, googling won't do his homework for him. (And chances are that the asker found the BB forum through googling  )
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Perhaps allowing yourself to be insulted is just the price you pay for free help.
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When I ask my friend, neighbors or workmates for (free) help with something, they have been positive and helpful; I have not had to pay the price of tolerating their insults.
Not yet. That may change in the future, as internet "social conventions" spread to real life.
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I don't see that happening very often, but when you google for a problem you find someone asking your question on a forum, and guess what's the answer ? "LMGTFY", "Google it", or whatever similar.
So please never answer question like that, it just makes google searches less efficient.
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I am doing more support than development these days and the first thing when someone asks me for help is what they have done to find an answer? Investigations, using Google for answers, etc. For programming issues, we generally allow a person a maximum of 2 hours to try on their own before asking for help, but then that person must be able to show what has been done/tried in that time. If it is a high priority issue, it may be sooner but then I hope the person really tried, else sarcasm/lmgtfy will come to the front.
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I (sort of) agree but as pointed out on a few occasions by both Chris and Sean, that does not answer the question. I think maybe the FAQ says more.
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I would advise against that.
1. It doesn't answer their question.
2. It doesn't help anyone else (assuming the question is phrased well enough that someone else might be searching for it.
3. I'm not sure they will learn.
4. If I find a question that this response that requires this, I will more than likely delete it.
Thanks,
Sean Ewington
CodeProject
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Comprehension,
Not everyone understands the documents they are reading. That's what it boils down to. Sometimes you just need someone to explain it in laymen terms.
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A lot of times, I answer the question and then tell them they could have found the same answer with a simple google search.
Personally, I would much rather try to find the answer to a question with a google search than wait for someone on CP to answer a question I post. It's faster, and I get a myriad of solutions to my problem.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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Not all of them. Sometimes, verbatim answers to stupid questions yield some fantastic entertainment.
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People seem to think I know everything. To be honest, I have a terrible memory.
So, when someone phones me, wanting to know something, the conversation goes something like this:
caller: ring ring
me: hello?
caller: Hi, do you know [who|what|why|when|where] <something> is?
me: (click home on browser) Hi it's John isn't it?
caller: Yes, it's john, from the tech department.
me: (typing "[who|what|when|where] <something>" into google) What is connection with?
caller: Blah, blah and blah.
me: (looking for the most likely answers that match his babble) Well, <something> is [they|that|then|there].
caller: wow, thank you. How do you know so much?
me: (bookmarking that page, because the idiot will phone for more details later) I just know stuff.
Nothing succeeds like a budgie without teeth.
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They are NOT stupid! Quite the opposite! they are 'smart' or, actually 'street smart'. And they are LAAAAAZY! They have been conditioned to behave like this by our new society. When the 'classical' school is reduced to Google, YouTube, blogs and forums - all easy ways to solve your problems without work or even giving it much thought (they are not even able to articulate the question they want to ask/search for), then why wouldn't they take advantage of them?! Books, manuals, datasheets, etc. all hundreds of pages long must be avoided like the pest! I see them every days on technical forums, mumbling some 'question', mostly asking for 'codes' and the forum 'experts' jumping to serve them like bitches in heat! They go mindlessly thru schools and universities and come out as the new specialists with impressive titles and diplomas. They are the future. Fortunately they are not all like that - just like >95%.
God help us...
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in short: no
context matters (to me at least)
like any skill, something which might seem easy to yourself, might not be so for others.
and "just google it" is not so. Add on taking code X and apply to code Y is another head ach.
- what wanting answer to
- how to phase question
- which resources results are useful and which not (my Ad blindess and dark pattern design of how google places ad is tripping me up a bit more often in last year 😒)
- then reading answer, understanding and transforming to your needs.
"how to calculate room size" is missing things like, floor area, volume,
my manic self would question do inner walls count toward a houses area or not.
Often asking back questions helps prompt them in the direction to solving what they need.
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Thanks for cruising the CP/QA/Forums neighborhood, and dumping your generalizations. and negativity,
Given the stupidity you see, it is, of course, a wise choice for you to not contribute anything.
In ten years on CodeProject, you have a track record that speaks for itself:
Articles 0
Tech Blogs 0
Messages 666 (Master)
Q&A Questions 1
Q&A Answers 3
Tips/Tricks 2
Reference 0
Projects 0
Comments 5
«The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled» Plutarch
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My experience with asking for help with programming goes back to my first computer Apple // 40 columns
So this was before you could use the internet to ask questions.
My only educational experience with programming was an elective in pharmacy school called basic programming.
This was on DEC Writer NO Screen.
While living in Dayton, Ohio I was lucky we had a computer club Apple Dayton at Wright Patterson Air Force Base.
Once a month members would publish a floppy disk with tip & tricks and a complete program now and then.
At the monthly meeting you could interact with like minded people face to face.
Also at this time computer magazines had some quality code published as an article.
Fast forward to the invention of interacting on the internet where in place of face to face dialog the responder to a question can go out of their way to chastise the person with less knowledge.
What has been expressed by Bill Woodruff and others is that Code Project is a Club.
If you do not want to HELP don't engage with the question. OR point the person to a suitable Article.
For me as a Novice programmer I am always thankful when I get an answer on Code Project.
When I first joined it was to get an answer to a question.
I realized after a while that the people here were highly educated in not only programming but in many other disciplines.
The Lounge has been a wonderful place for polite interaction kind of like Apple Dayton Club.
My pie in the sky thought it would be nice to see a bi-monthly article on how to do various code procedures
I would love to contribute with an article from a Novice point of view about the complete construction of a project but I need a little help understanding how to use the interface on Code Project.
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Totally agree with your second comment. I have benefited from amazingly patient replies to questions I later realise were maybe a bit stupid. Thank you all.
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Well I can't speak for CP, but....
Stack Overflow - You'll make the mods/admins mad
Quora - You'll get a strike on your account
Facebook - You'll get a 24 hour posting ban
In all 3 cases, try to use lmgtfy, and the ban you receive will be cited as "Not being courteous or kind to others, and using language intended to inflict harm."
I keep racking up bans, then I hit the limit and have to be very careful for 3/6 months or whatever, otherwise my account will get closed down, it is crazy how easily those 3 are triggered these days.
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