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If you steal my wife's coffee, you're probably signing your own death sentence.
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Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me, but it's me who is always complaying about my CS degree. In the beginning my courses were challanging and I even wrote about it here, but I was working hard and systematically and I came to a point where my classes started to feel like there were going in slow motion, they became more worthless and worthless. I stopped to go to lectures because they are just waste of my time. We are taught obvious things that anyone can learn in five minutes for a almost a half year. In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book or complete two 8-hour tutorials or more while the teachers still show us how to draw an UML-diagram.
I thought I could force myself to keep going, but after I started my first group assignment I said to myself: "Enough is enough". I ended up in a group of people who are totaly not intrested in porgramming and have zero knowledge about it. And I'm not talking about writing bad code. No, they can't code at all. If you show them maybe they do, but they do it as if a nazi forced them to do it and they just write some code that doesn't even work, only to get rid of me. They have better grades than me but It's me who has to teach them and explain to them the basics of programming that we had exams of. I don't even know how they came so far. I guess they copied and pasted the code or asked someone to do it for them - because they are con artists for sure.
So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving? I learned everything by myself. This school didn't teach me anything - the same goes for my classamtes who can program, they already could do it before they got into this circus for college and the rest of my classmates are just lazy con artists who will take their degree thank's to group assignments which are usually done by one hard working, programming intrested and passionate slave. Because if you ask me I would never ever employ half of my classmates. I don't even know if they can define a variable. They act like if they were kidnapped by aliens, went through medical experiments and than after a month were released still uncoscious and forcly put behind a computer monitor at some university and here they are and they have no clue why they are there and what happens.
If you ask me I don't really care as long as they dont waste my time and sabotaging me. But they do. I have to sit together with them and waste hours after hours listnening to them talking none programming related stuff and pretend I can't program because I have to be "good teamplayer" and wait one month for them to write and "int" and another month to write variable name and another month to define it  . I'm bored to death I could use those hours to learn another programming language, do my own projects... work as a freelancer and make money. I feel that I don't need my degree at all. It's just wasting my money and time and stopping me from actually learning my profession and progress. Because I can't evolve in this environment. Now I'm filling up my portfolio and I will soon look for a job, and if I get it, I don't know if I want to torture myself and come back to my college. What do you think? If I get a job, do I have to worry about not having a degree or do I have to keep wasting my money and time just for this useless paper?
PS: I know that I will not always prorgam that much at my work and I still have to put up with lazy co-workers and waste time at the meetings but at least I get money for that and I can pay off my loan.
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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The main reason for getting a degree is that some employers won't hire you without one. But this seems to be getting less and less so. And as you're finding, many degrees are now way overpriced, not to mention that many universities drag in nonsense that has nothing to do with your subject. Even some companies do that now. But if you can find a job that you think would be make you happy, I'd say go for it.
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Greg Utas wrote: The main reason for getting a degree is that some employers won't hire you without one.
As an acquaintance of mine has put it: "A college degree is a modern white collar union card. It's neither a necessary nor sufficient condition to prove you can do the job; but just like in great-grandpa's day without ex a plumbers union card there were a lot of job sites you won't even get a chance to talk to the hiring manager without one."
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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In the past year or so, I ran into an uptick of jobs require the degree. I don't have one so was passed over. The degree is pretty much useless on what you will be doing.
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The degree shows that you can take a hard task and stick with it for several years. Once you're a senior dev, your resume should be able to do that (assuming you're not a serial job-hopper or keep picking bum companies and get downsized over and over again); but the bigger the company the more likely HR is an immovable object without a brain.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
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That sounds good. But is not always the case. I have 20 + years of Senior Dev experience. I have ran into a number of companies that would even talk to me without a degree even with a Secret Clearance and creating a project from scratch that is still in the market. Fortunately not all, I just landed a job as a Lead Dev. Many companies HR is really IR (Inhuman Relations). It is HR that in many times make the degree mandatory. The could
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Member 14971499 wrote:
So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving?
That you are capable of starting AND FINISHING what you started. That, not the degree itself, says lots about an employee.
"One man's wage rise is another man's price increase." - Harold Wilson
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him." - James D. Miles
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Yeah, see it through, even if it wrecks you! Lets go for another Phyrric victory!
David Crow wrote: That, not the degree itself, says lots about an employee.
Yes, that he learned to shut up. That's why I don't have a degree 
If you looking for someone who pleases you, then I'm not it. And nice enough, my first job, one of the question interviews was wether I could hold my ground if I knew I was right. Question was asked by my boss-to-become, and he imposing and been in the military. He also made it very clear that he would not accept weeks of whining about decisions made 
Arguments were short, factual and to the point.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Oh! How I wish my boss(es...) were like that!
Instead I get umpteen versions of 'requirements' from each (usually mutually contradictory) then questioned on why so-and-so doesn't do what they want (this particular requirement, of course, was never in the requested 'requirements'...).
AAAArghhh...
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David Crow wrote: That you are capable of starting AND FINISHING what you started.
I totally agree with this.
Anyone can complete a task that they enjoy and find easy. Being able to complete something difficult that you do not enjoy is what really counts. That's why it's called "work".
I have hired people with a degree and I have hired people without a degree. I have never hired someone that quit their course.
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Member 14971499 wrote: Here I am again. I don't know if you remember me
It would probably help if you changed your user name. I always get you mixed up with Member 14971498... 
Anything that is unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
Anonymous
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The problem with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they're genuine
Winston Churchill, 1944
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Never argue with a fool. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.
Mark Twain
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Member 14971499 wrote: because they are con artists for sure.
Paranoid much.
CI/CD = Continuous Impediment/Continuous Despair
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Get your degree. Life changes across time and it will never be a problem having it. But maybe some day you will need it.
The fact you get a job now doesn't mean you want a new one in the future that could require that degree.
Good luck with your decision.
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Why are you so invested in "getting a job"?
Taking this at face value, you are probably not made for a "job". If you are a high achiever, like you make yourself out to be, then you will always feel like everyone around you is slowing you down.
The paper is not useless, it will be with you for the rest of your life. It shows perserverance.
However, I would encourage you to look at things differently in a much larger perspective. Your objective is acquiring marketable skills, so later in life you can make plenty of money and acquire wealth so you can chose to live as you wish, do what you want, wherever you want to.
It would be nice if you really like what you are doing as it will feel like you are not working.
So what are you going to do? Mope about your class mates and whine?
No, you are going to make the best of it, see the learning opportunities around you. Educate yourself how to work with your class mates to achieve your goals. Branch out to other disciplines, self educate on data science, AI, statistics, psychology, Azure, whatever. Take on a few projects, transfer to a different CS program with higher standards, etc. etc.
The absolute worst that can happen is that your finish your degree angry with the CS world and you start whining about that to a recruiter. A good one will ask "what did you do about it?
I have plenty of projects if you are looking for stuff to learn.
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I believe you've confused University and/or College with an Educational Experience.
Many people do confuse the two.
University or College is actually A Game. 
It is A Game you play until you receive the game-winning proof: The Degree
You then take that proof and pass it into the next game: Obtaining & Holding A Paying Job
Here's the thing that will make you happiest:
Obtain whatever you need to get the easiest* job which you enjoy the most that provides you with the most $$$.
But remember the $$$ is only so you can have freedom.
Freedom to leave when the Game Goes Sour.
Freedom to do your own thing in your off time.
Freedom to maybe even Build Your Own Game and Make The Game What You Want.
It's all Games.
You've just discovered that it's all Games at an earlier stage than many people do.
*Easiest just means the thing that feels the least like a job to you.
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Taking your post as a whole, you seem to be a bit "mixed up" and starting to head towards "messed up".
This is not meant to be mean - but food for thought. You look out at the world from behind your eyes and see what you see - or - what you think you see. The last paragraph is very telling in the respect. The worry about being sabotaged and blaming your own actions on the others in your team.
If you read what the poster of this comment[^] has to say you may realize that your views may change: whether or not reality, around them, has or has not.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: If you read what the poster of this comment[^] has to say you may realize that your views may change: whether or not reality, around them, has or has not.
Unlikely! It's the same person. Member 14971499.
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jsc42 wrote: Unlikely! It's the same person. Member 14971499.
That was my point !
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Quote: So my question is: What does my degree exactly proving?
Tenacity. It's not a quality kept in high regard these days, but take my word for it, it's badly needed if you are going to practice programming professionally. Do you imagine big software projects are all fun and enjoyment? There is the thrill of finding a nice solution followed by the boredom of having to implement it and writing code for all the corner cases and input checking and so on and so forth (yawn). Reminds me sometimes of what they say about the life of airline pilots: hours of boredom interrupted by moments of shear panic.
Member 14971499 wrote: PS: I know that I will not always prorgam that much at my work and I still have to put up with lazy co-workers and waste time at the meetings
You see: you are alredy getting the hang of it
As Yoda said: "Patience you must have my young padawan"
Mircea
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Member 14971499 wrote: In one week I can finish 800-pages programming book
If you can understand all of an 800 page programming book about a new subject in a week, start your own company, you're a genius. Like others have said, some job opportunities will simply not be available to you without a degree. Being condescending towards others about their perceived laziness or lack of skill is generally not a trait employers are looking for.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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jeron1 wrote: If you can understand all of an 800 page programming book about a new subject in a week, start your own company, you're a genius.
If you think it makes me a genius, than I suppose you never even opened a programming book in your life. I already went trough many such books and I don't feel like a genius.
jeron1 wrote: Being condescending towards others about their perceived laziness or lack of skill is generally not a trait employers are looking for.
It's not "perceived laziness", it's the real laziness and the real lack of skill. That's why employers have to hire slaves... I mean... "outsource" to Eastern Europe and Asia, so that one indian can do the job of hundres of intern lazy con artists.
modified 3-Jun-21 21:01pm.
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Good luck.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Quote: It's not "perceived laziness", it's the real laziness and the real lack of skill.
I can't comment on the individuals concerned as I don't know them, but that is a rather sweeping comment to make. You've already said that there is at least one hard-working student in the group and claim that your class mates already knew how to program before joining the course.
Quote: That's why employers have to hire slaves... I mean... "outsource" to Eastern Europe and Asia, so that one indian can do the job of hundres of intern lazy con artists.
It is unlikely that one person, Indian or otherwise, can do the job of hundreds of Interns. Please stop using the word "slaves" to reference these hard-working outsourcers. It might seem like poor pay to those of us lucky enough to live in wealthy countries, but they are usually relatively highly paid compared to their own community.
Quote: than I suppose you never even opened a programming book in your life.
I'm fairly sure that an Engineer who has been a member here for over 14 years has read a technical book or two in their time!
You're sailing a little close to the wind with some of the comments you are making. This is a site for professionals (actual or budding) so please try to keep your comments civil, non-condescending and non-insulting.
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Well said. 
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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