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charlieg wrote: Multiple VMs zooming along, editors all over, yada yada.
[...]
charlieg wrote: Please restart your computer
The solution is to go all-in with VMs. If you run VS itself within its own VM, and it insists on rebooting, then you won't have to reboot the host OS, and drag along and interrupt whatever work the other VMs are doing.
For years, I've had nothing on my host OS but the motherboard drivers, and the virtualization software (Hyper-V in my case). All my work is done inside separate VMs - one dedicated to SQL, another for VS2019, older ones with older versions of VS, another for "everything else" (Office, email, browsers, etc). That way reboots cause the minimal amount of disruptions.
My host, at most, reboots once a month, on Patch Tuesday. I've had instances where I let the host wait for a reboot for a few months on end--right now it's still waiting to complete the setup for the February patches. Since I do nothing on the host, including no browsing, it's really at minimal risk and I don't worry as much about hurrying to patch that one as I might with any of the guest VMs. Could be Linux if I was so inclined.
Bonus: Backing up is just a matter of copying .VHD files. Since there's nothing on the host, I don't even bother backing that one up--reinstalling the OS is pretty quick nowadays. My entire backup set is just a bunch of VHD files that can be managed like any other file with Explorer. Some of these have even been migrated to different physical machines over time.
Extra bonus: Since the heavy work is all done in VMs, the host is warming up another room and I don't even have to hear its loud fans. On my desk in this room is a tiny, completely quiet Intel NUC, with 3 monitors, and it RDPs to the individual VMs.
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It's been on my list to do for 2 years. I guess I should stop $itching and start doing.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I do more or less the same, but not in a dedicated maschine...
One VM for serious staff
Another one for surfing / searching non whitelisted places
Another one for...
VS Community (for private pet projects) is in the main OS though. But as I don't use it so much last time...
Additionally, I am someone that switches the PC off almost every day, so I don't really care about the reboots.
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Interesting question.
I found the following. It suggests that windows locks the dlls because it is using the dll itself as a memory mapped file. So of course having that replaced while running would be bad thing. Sounds like a reasonable cause although I could not find other sources that back that up.
c# - Why does the .NET framework lock dlls? - Stack Overflow[^]
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Simplified garbage collecting.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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 truth
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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All excellent points. I had not considered that VS2019 might have updated core OS components. I was tired  That said, if VS2019 is updating core OS stuff, it should be in the standard patch rollout. Segmentation please. As someone else mentioned, it's probably a default in the install s/w.
1 point to MS: although they did not give me a "reboot later" button, I could X off the prompt and keep going.
I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS.
Thank you all
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
modified 17-Apr-21 15:35pm.
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charlieg wrote: 1 point to MS: although they did not give me a "reboot later" button, I could X off the prompt and keep going.
That's probably an error, not a feature  
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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"Reboot later" - yes, thank goodness for that option. Far too many apps still ask you to "Reboot to complete the installation" but I find it's rarely actually necessary. Only today I installed WireShark (not used it before) and it asked to reboot. Not convenient right now, so "reboot later" and just use the thing. Seems to work 100% OK; certainly did what I needed it to do today. I'll reboot in a couple of weeks or so, probably.
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Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk Or better yet, mail MS on how they should replace running executables.
Same goes for libraries in use by several exe's. Try replacing those, while they execute
charlieg wrote: I guess my perspective was flavored on my most recent video card driver update from NVidea. Their install process messes with my screens (expected) but I did not have to reboot. I consider *any* driver pretty core to the OS.
You wanna pay NVIDIA pricing for every component on your PC?
I can do the same; just TCP/IP communication on the localhost, instead of coupling. That'd be the technical option, instead of downloading crap and claiming it to be an update, just to show some ads and the line that "umpteen devices use Java.", without any real changes. I hate the Java Updater a lot more than Windows Updates that can be explained.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Point taken. I've noticed I have to login to get the update now. I'm not even sure why I bother. It's not like I need the latest update for my 1070 chip in my laptop - 4 years old - and it's not changing. Biggest issue for me is sometimes VMWare Workstation gets wonky at times with driver updates. And VMWare never addresses them.
My point is that when MS wants to roll out updates, we all know a reboot is coming, so we plan for it. If I install VS2019 (which I just did) last week, it did not ask me to reboot my machine. If I update, I do? For that matter, if a VS2019 update includes all sorts of other components, then it should *say* so as a common courtesy.
I'm agreeing with the other poster, I think they just say it to say it.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk
Well, it's possible to rename an executable while it is running. This is how our desktop apps get updated...also makes rolling back simple if required.
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
"Hope is contagious"
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Replace an exe while it is running, then we talk
How about the same way everything else does - Close the program, launch another one that re-names the original, then re-launch it.
Imagine you had to reboot your PC any time Steam (Or any of its included games), or Windows Defender definitions or etc. updated. You'd be rebooting half a dozen times a day!
-= Reelix =-
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Reelix wrote: How about the same way everything else does - Close the program, launch another one that re-names the original, then re-launch it.
That works for your application. As I already explained,
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Same goes for libraries in use by several exe's.
So, explain how you update a DLL that is in use by several other applications/services?
Reelix wrote: Imagine you had to reboot your PC any time Steam (Or any of its included games), or Windows Defender definitions or etc. updated. You'd be rebooting half a dozen times a day!
Those don't require a reboot because they don't update a shared resource.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Taking a guess a kernel driver that supports the debugger has been updated, therefore mandating the restart.
Software Zen: delete this;
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Then you realize that it just wants you to restart explorer and you don't actually need to reboot - Like 95% of the stuff that wants you to restart...
I never reboot between VS Updates and it still works fine.
-= Reelix =-
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Epic is giving two games from Daedalic for free this week.
Deponia: The complete journey
and
Ken Follett's The Pillars of the Earth
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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<rant>
Anyone else tired of all the "woke" internal emails and posts with your employer, this group's month and that group's month, wellness contests, mindfulness propaganda, etc.?
What happened to just focusing on getting the job done, getting along with and respecting coworkers, and leaving politics out of the work environment?
I long for the good old days when discussions outside the immediate work focus centered around football teams (American football), baseball, family stuff, or the old pro- or anti-Microsoft arguments. And when it was over, we could all get a beverage of our choice together.
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I work for a small company where everyone is so busy nobody can dream of having the time needed to write such emails.
A company should be focused on what it's trying to sell. You know if you're getting those, someone doesn't have nearly enough to do.
modified 21-Apr-21 16:14pm.
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Yeah, sort of depends on the size of the company and where the roots are. I have no patience for it.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I get none of those (I'm self-employed)
However, I think this has to do with the changing times.
People no longer want to work 9 to 5 to simply provide for their families.
Work is a huge part of your life so it should be "fun".
For example, my previous employer had air balloon flights (which was unfortunately cancelled because of the bad weather), weekends at the beach, hackathons, movie nights and what have you.
They even had a "happiness officer" (in her defense, she was also a recruiter and she recruited me and she was genuinely very nice and fun, seeing her always made everyone happy).
Old farts like yourself and grumps like me (I don't consider myself old yet) prefer the old 9 to 5 mentality, but companies need to do something to get the attention of the new and young talent who expect more from their employer.
Then comes all the wellness and yoga and stuff.
A lot of people are experiencing COVID-related stress.
In the Netherlands, when an employee gets sick, the employer pays for health benefits for up to two years after an employee gets sick, even when no work is done.
To make things worse, simply firing an employee is generally a huge undertaking that will probably cost you lots of money.
As you can imagine, employers are scared shitless for employees getting overworked, depressed and basically anything that would prevent them from doing work while still getting paid.
It's so bad over here that employers aren't even looking to hire anymore and about 13% of the workforce is forced into self-employment (which isn't why I chose this path by the way).
Out of all business owner's, 75% does not have any employees.
This is a huge issue over here that the government is currently tackling by making it less attractive to be self-employed 
So anyway, if an employee gets sick, you better have proof that you, as employer, did everything you could to prevent it... Like wellness, mindfulness, yoga...
It's probably like this in the whole of Europe (maybe a bit "worse" in northern countries, and a bit "less" in eastern countries, I don't know).
I can imagine it's completely different in America, but similar thoughts may play a role.
Especially getting and keeping young talent and especially in IT where good workers are hard to come by.
Let's also not forget that employers also need to adapt to these new times, new trends and now work from home and some of them may be searching for ways to keep their employees happy and involved.
Some do it better than others
I've worked for an "old fashioned" company where the average age was well over 40.
That wasn't a lot of fun either and ultimately I quit and some other young employees did as well and none of the interns stayed either...
I also really don't care about football (soccer), Formula 1, sports in general, family stuff (especially children) and I've heard all the pro- or anti-Microsoft arguments by now
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Sander - "Woke" is not what you are addressing. Just FYI.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Well, with "woke" I think about being so anti-racist that you're racist again, being anti-male except when you need miners or some such because that's "typically male" and being so vegan that you can't have friends because friends are made of meat and you're against meat.
I mean, basically they're people with great ideas that could help humanity, except they implement it in the extreme which just makes it silly, dumb and unfair.
Even to the point where the people they're trying to "protect" don't agree with them anymore.
That, to me, is "woke", extreme social awareness (and possibly a mental illness or blockade caused by underlying problems like depression, boredom and/or the feeling of uselessness).
However, the post was about wellness and mindfulness, which to me isn't woke, but employee well-being which may also go a bit further than we're used to.
I guess it's "new age" or "spiritual" employee well-being.
So I replied about employee well-being and not about racism, sexism and veganism (although they could also be part of employee well-being).
By the way, did I ever tell you I'm a vegetarian?*
* I really am, and not just because it's hip either, have been for 23 years, which was my own choice when I was 10 years old, but I'm just messing with you by telling you.
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If someone has time to be sending a bunch of emails like that, then it isn't a dev focused dev shop, IMO
I don't like big companies, or rather companies that do more than software development, in part because of the interpersonal politics that comes with it - i find it easier to navigate the less people there are, and also there's a lot of needless churn at companies that do more than development. I see these emails you bring up as part of that. Along with trainings and meetings that have nothing to do with the craft.
I don't think "woke" is really the issue here, at least for me. I'd have, and have had just as big a problem with so called "team builders" that really need to find a hobby instead of coming up with an endless stream of garbage we have to participate in just so they can justify their continued employment.
My $0.02
Real programmers use butterflies
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honey the codewitch wrote: I don't think "woke" is really the issue here, at least for me. I'd have, and have had just as big a problem with so called "team builders" that really need to find a hobby instead of coming up with an endless stream of garbage we have to participate in just so they can justify their continued employment.
Truer words have rarely been spoken. Fire the @#$% drones, and use their salaries (and the budgets that they control) to increase the productive workers' bonuses. I am perfectly competent to find my own leisure activities, and people with which to share them.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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