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I'm a newcomer to reactive frameworks such as Vue and React. The whole concept of updating a value (or wiring it up to a UI element so it can be updated) and having the changes propagate through the application without explicitly updating anything else is new and weird. But super convenient.
It feels like the move from managing my own memory in C++ to moving to the managed memory model of C#. Whereas memory management felt like I had a servant who would go around and pick up my dirty laundry, it now feels like I have a bunch of servants who run around doing stuff that needs to be done without me even needing to tell them to do it. If they were staff they'd get a bonus.
Except when they get totally confused and can't break out of a cyclic dependency. Or when they react to every tiny little thing. Or when they put tabs on everything so they don't miss anything, but "everything" includes megabytes of timeseries data that's never going to change.
I get how to work around these things but it's an odd, kinda cool, sometimes uncomfortable experience and I was just wondering how others adapted (or didn't)
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: The whole concept of updating a value (or wiring it up to a UI element so it can be updated) and having the changes propagate through the application without explicitly updating anything else is new and weird. But super convenient.
In them good ol' days we use to call things like that 'scope' and had pet names like "global" and "local". Wow - what will they think up next?
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Not quite the same things. It's the observable that does the magic and allows other things to happen. Magically. Mystically. Surprisingly. Frustratingly. Horrifyingly sometimes.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Not saying your not using the right tool for whatever it is your doing, but Chris Maunder wrote: Magically. Mystically. Surprisingly. Frustratingly. Horrifyingly sometimes.
is why I avoid frameworks like Ebola.
Hopefully it won't come to you, but that list of attributes is a prescription for a developer to be left sh*t-faced and helpless. Or, the one item left off the list when it all goes swirling down: 'cursed'.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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If I couldn't use anything I didn't understand I'd be working in a whole different field (and that probably goes for 99% of us) 
It's kind of fun how you allow your source code to magically and mystically run on a computer which translates it to 1's and 0's and does something with current on nano chips made of silicon (or whatever happens in a computer!), but you draw a line at a relatively simple library that updates an input based on a value 
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I guess it depends on your definition of "understand".
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There is a framework called Ebola??? What does it work with? Can you C# after importing it, or do you need Java?
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There are many such frameworks with outbreaks every few months. They mutate frequently and reinfect coding until the next mutation occurs and replaces it.
They easily make the jump to script-kiddies, a very common vector for their spread, soon after being their first public announcement.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Kinda like WPF binding, amazing tech. but man can it be a headache to debug!
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I work with React, amongst other frameworks and it's my choice for my personal web development although I still feel like an amateur with it.
The trickiest part I have found is not so much the clever binding where the DOM updates when you update state, but trying to figure our why the DOM is not being updated when you update state.
There are little traps throughout REACT waiting to make your day difficult when all you wanted to do was update some text from an async function.
One small thing, React and Typescript go together very nicely.
P.S. I forgot to mention that if you are going to use React also look into Redux - it took me and still takes me to do some mental gymnastics to understand Redux but it does make handling state a bit neater than using the React state functions.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I'm using Vue which kinda sort but doesn't really play nice with TypeScript. The new version will fix that but until the components are updated it'll be messy.
I do like it a lot, though.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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If you think React and Typescript work well together, you will be amazed of how amazing Angular is. For me React is more a javascript framework, and they just tried to make it working with typescript. Angular instead is born with typescript in mind, and everything is strongly typed and doesn't require weird type definition everywhere. Then Angular + RxJs (reactive framework) is the only valuable option for big/enterprise applications.
React works fine only for small applications, like Vue and others. If you also want to unit-test your code, then Angular is the only option.
The downside of Angular is the crazy-complex router and the learning curve due to RxJs.
React developers writing Angular code are a shame, as they don't want to learn a new sw paradigm, but their mental mindset doesn't fit with the Angular model (here comes some poor reviews about Ag).
A React app after a while is a big ball of mud, while Angular keep the code pretty clean (apart the junior js developer hammering code copied from so...)
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Rarely do I read a message full of so much nonsense.
I started out in Angular 1.x. Moved to modern Anglular and it was great. Finally took the plunge and built enterprise grade apps with React and React Router. Not only did the teams productivity shoot through the roof, using React and Typescript, the concensus was that Angular has a lot of strange rules and boilerplate to make things work. ViewChild? Uh huh or just pass props to a child component and write any supporting JS needed. I would write more but I imagine this may overload things for you with such a narrow pipeline and you will need an observable to watch what I'm saying and run it through a translation service. I wouldn't want to trigger a digest cycle by putting to many thoughts and concepts out there and causing your thoughts to render infinitely.
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All this magic has to come from somewhere: rules for a rules engine and / or slavish adherence to some implied "language": a spade is a spade is a shovel is not a playing card is ...
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Remember DDX (Dialog Data Exchange) in WinForms (MFC)?
Dialog Data Exchange | Microsoft Docs[^]
It allowed you to bind the control value to your member variable.
void CTestDialog::DoDataExchange(CDataExchange* pDX)
{
CDialog::DoDataExchange(pDX);
DDX_Check(pDX, IDC_MY_CHECKBOX, m_bVal);
DDX_Text(pDX, IDC_MY_TEXTBOX, m_strName);
DDV_MaxChars(pDX, m_strName, 20);
}
This binding thing been around for a long time, but it didn't have a good name like React. 
Once Something Out of the Ordinary Happens
The Angular binding was a lot of fun and quite smooth. Just kind of does everything for you.
The problem with all of these is when something out of the ordinary happens.
Generally once that happens you spend countless hours trying to fix things that happen by magic.
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I completely forgot about DDX! Oh, those were the days
cheers
Chris Maunder
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I remember this, good times back then.
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I started using Vue a few years back and I love it.
I keep it simple, so I only use the most basic bindings.
I've used a component a couple of times, but never wrote one myself.
As it happens, I've experimented with list add and (re)move animations just last week, which is sort of half included.
Unfortunately, with some canvas element, I still had to do some manual DOM stuff.
All in all, 9/10 would recommend.
You shouldn't really listen to me though, I'm a back-end developer and I quite dislike the front-end and I'm not very good at it either.
CSS gives me nightmares 
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I must be twisted but I love CSS.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Only my 2 cents: vue is unique for abstracting/developing components
modified 24-Apr-21 21:01pm.
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I have been using Flutter, a reactive cross-plattform mobile development framework for some months now. Hot Reloading where you save and run your app in one second is important to me. If I have to wait tre seconds to see the result, it is already too long. One bonus is that you now can run the same code to compile it to run on native Windows, the web, macOS, or Linux desktop. It is still not perfect but worth a try.
In React you need some good debugging tools and state management libraries. For small projects MobX is easy to set up and use. For big projects with a lot of programmers I would use Redux but it has a steep learning curve and every time you need to change something you have to edit a lot of files.
jhaga
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Yeah, I was enjoying hot module reload that was backed into .NET Core. Until they removed it.
I know you can work around that by wiring it up using Webpack and npm (or whatever) but it's a little frustrating to have to continually step outside Visual Studio for things that really should be baked into the system at this point.
cheers
Chris Maunder
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Chris Maunder wrote: The whole concept of updating a value (or wiring it up to a UI element so it can be updated) and having the changes propagate through the application without explicitly updating anything else is new and weird. But super convenient.
Isn't that what Windows bindings do?
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Chris Maunder wrote: (or didn't)
Bingo. I've looked at these frameworks, listened to my fellow developers rave about them but then never use them, and same devs ask me "hmm, which framework is best to learn?"...
and when I look at the dependencies I run away screaming...
and when I look at the core underlying technology, which is the Proxy feature of JavaScript, I end up writing my own in about an hour...
and when I look at entangling declarative markup with flowy-conditionally-WTFy imperative coding, I run away screaming in a different direction...
and when I look at the whole gestalt, it's sort of like Tulip Mania in 1637 and what's the next framework du jour...
and then I wonder again, why do I even need this stuff...
and I realize I'm wasting a lot of time trying to justify using one of these frameworks when the reality is, I simply cannot come up with a justifiable use case.
But that's me.
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