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It could be because C and C++ make you realize the fundamentals of programming and how other languages work 'under their hoods'. And/or because most other languages actually have all of the fundamentals, but 'toned down'. For example, C# and Delegates (C's pointer to functions), Ref (pointers), and so on.
MeziLu
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Assembler was my first language. C has the benefit of teaching you about memory, pointers, and other low level stuff that you really need to understand to be a top developer.
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Wow, I would not have guessed that C is a popular first language.
I worked in C around 35 years ago. I can't speak to whether it will be good for these people's careers. One positive is a better under-the-hood understanding of memory management and allocation that modern OO architectures just provide for you.
I think that background helped me design better, more efficient classes in the OO world.
I mean, if the developer truly understands what they're doing in C of course.
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Not sure what makes a language old fashioned, but all you have to do is look at any performance chart to see that C is still the fastest. It embodies functional programming well, but then the question becomes "what is the best programming paradigm to begin with?" The argument used to be OOP, but like any tool in a toolbox, the purpose chooses the toolset and tool.
What is the degree in computing preparing you for? Does understanding functional composition make more sense than inheritance as a staring point? What you learn first becomes the context into which all other concepts are framed. Personally, I think working with APIs rates as a solid first or second concept that you will use forever.
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Hmm. I'll take the contrary position and disagree with you.
I think C makes a good teaching language for a certain class of student who I will call, for lack of a more appropriate term, The Geek. The Geek wants to understand how everything works. They want to know how to tie bits together, and to make those collections of bits do new and exciting (aka  ) things.
C has value for that sort of student. It's as bare metal as you can get without resorting to assembly language. C provides an understanding of certain fundamental building blocks that are givens in more sophisticated languages. The Geek can build those blocks in C, which provides a greater appreciation of their strengths and weaknesses. There are consequences for making mistakes, consequences that will make The Geek really think about what they are doing.
I know this to be true, because back in the day I was The Geek  .
Software Zen: delete this;
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Hard to say, but it could have something to do with the fact that "The C Programming Language" by Brian Kernighan and Dennis Ritchie is the standard against which all programming books are judged.
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Thank you so much for your recent letter telling me you are putting the price of your service up from next month, but that I shouldn't worry, your commitment to service and great value isn't changing.
It prompted me to look around and see what I can get elsewhere, and I'll be leaving you on the 6th April and paying Sky £20 per month less than I was paying you. In addition, I get a better Sky TV package and Netflix, which should please Herself.
Thanks again, I appreciate the service you have given me this time.
Best regards,
OriginalGriff
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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OriginalGriff wrote: Thank you so much for your recent letter telling me you are putting the price of your service up from next month
Haven't you heard that the prices of both telecom-quality electrons and fiberoptic-quality photons have gone up recently? Apparently they can't import them from China because of COVID restrictions. 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Best to also let ISP know they shouldn't be worried that your commitment to watching TV and browsing the web is changing
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I'm truly hoping you have sent this to them.
They deserve to know.
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Not a super lot of competition amongst ISP here. Basically, almost everyplace has "Verizon" and some "other". Our other used to be local-ish Optimum Online. They still sort of use the name but they're really now owned by Altice.
Service and attitude have not improved with that change. They concentrate on faster and faster speeds that, in a practical sense, have no effect except increasing the monthly bill. They know their rival (Verizon) and their immense amount of add-on fees (and contracts): Altice has retained Optimum's no-contract model.
Every year or two I have to go through a ritual with them to keep them from billing me the full rate instead of my trial-off special. This year I had my speed lowered (to 200mbps) and let them charge my credit card automatically each month (oddly, it means they're paid later and I get "cash-back") - resulting in my bill actually dropping ca. $US 10 for the next two years (internet, two internet-telephone lines). Here, however, is what burns my craw:
I have to argue with them every year but they advertise on TV, Radio, etc., deals for new customers which are not only as good (or better) for a year but they throw in a $200 cash-card as well. Essentially they're more interested in new customers than retaining their existing customer base.
Basically, there's a huge whoring of the customer base between Altice and Verizon: it's always a good idea to switch providers (or "negotiate" with them every year or two). When the initial one-year deal ends the customers typically switch back (now eligible for the other ISP's deal).
I'm curious if your original provider will make offers to entice you back now that they know you'd have no regrets in leaving them.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: I have to argue with them every year but they advertise on TV, Radio, etc., deals for new customers which are not only as good (or better) for a year but they throw in a $200 cash-card as well. Essentially they're more interested in new customers than retaining their existing customer base.
That's true for other countries and other companies too... and it pisses me off too.
If you want to be in the range of "competitive" prices, you have to change your provider every 2 or 3 years, but they are trying to push a law that would make easier to identify "hoppers" and "punish them" in price or even rejecting the new contract.
Piece of   
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: but they are trying to push a law that would make easier to identify "hoppers" and "punish them" in price or even rejecting the new contract.
Who is this "they" ?
Such a law would, it seems to me, legislating more profits for private business - making it easier for them to not compete and increase costs to the customers.
Actually, quite the opposite of the way the EU behaves towards US companies (surprise !).
I can see the next step after the law passes. The next law will punish people who change the channel they watch on TV, then those who buy fuel at a different gas-station, and of course, if you dare shop in a different store.
| Ravings en masse^ |
|---|
| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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They are the lobbies and the ones in the shadows that make the politicians pass the laws of their interests
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Such a law would, it seems to me, legislating more profits for private business - making it easier for them to not compete and increase costs to the customers.
pretty more or less that.
W∴ Balboos, GHB wrote: Actually, quite the opposite of the way the EU behaves towards US companies
don't get me started... this is only the lounge
German government is losing the respect I had for, since Merkel announced retirement is getting worst moment after moment... the secretary of interior is trying to push several laws (again) i.e. IT-surveillance laws, data gathering, back doors in encryption, full identification when registering a forum in internet...
Luckily judges are trashing many of them due to legislative problems or citizen rights violation.
What happens at the end of the year when the elections are done... That's going to be "funny". 
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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This is EXACTLY why I stick with "Zen Internet"
Yes I pay a little bit more than most folks (About £36 per month) , but I have a lifetime guarantee that they will never change the price of my package unless I choose to change anything on it.
What do I get for that price (I'm in the UK by the way)?
8 Static IP's
50 Usable email addresses at my ISP created domain
10gb of web space
4* 1gb SMTP/POP/IMAP compatible inbound email accounts
Fixed line telephone line rental, with all local calls free, and national calls 10% less
40mb Download fibre internet connection
10mb Push/Upload fibre connection
Pre programmed router (Which last time I changed/upgraded anything was a top of the range fritzbox)
I live less than a mile from my exchange too, so I get the FULL speed range I'm rated for, and because this is a lesser known company (Everyone else on my estate gets pulled in by the glossy BT/Sky/Talk-Talk etc TV adverts) I have a pretty clear connection more or less all to myself that doesn't get shared with anyone.
But do you know what the best part is?
On the VERY rare occasions that I need to phone my ISP for anything, I pretty much get to talk to someone in the UK, that actually knows what they are talking about. Last time I had to do this, was because of a DHCP error over their slip negotiation, and within 5 minutes I was talking to an engineer who told me to put the model down, and talked me through setting up a DIRECT pppoe connection using my windows lap top that logged on, and negotiated a connection, while running wireshark so we could see where the problem was.
In the 10 or so years I've been with these guys now, I've had to phone them about 5 times, and 2 of those where billing enquiries, whilst one was to upgrade, so I've only ever phoned them twice in 2 years with problems.
There are NO LIMITS on bandwidth and or amount I can download/upload, I can should I choose use my own routing solution and they WILL STILL HELP ME SET IT UP, and it largely just bloody works, they pretty much just leave me to get on with it, no aggressive marketing or constantly trying to get me to upgrade or changing prices etc, and they where one of the first in the UK market (Along with the now defunct demon internet) they have resisted SEVERAL TIMES where larger companies like vodafone et al have tried to buy them out, and they DON'T agree with all this government sanctioned control about what sites I should and should not be allowed to access.
I'm not in any way affiliated with them, I'm just a very, very, very happy user of their service, if your techy and heavily into I.T. I can't recommend any other service here in the UK 
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 Lucky you, you found an unicorn...
I am with Vodafone, paying 24€ / month.
~6 MB/s download
~700 KB/s upload
3 Phone numbers
Flat for landline and cell phones in Germany
Europa flat for landlines
So far I am happy as I have never had big problems. I got a repeater in the basement because the signal was being a bit la-la, and a new router two times (one at the same time than the repeater the other one the firmware update wasn't landing and I got a newer device with the newest version in it).
But I had to threat them with leaving several times (once I even sent the cease letter) to get a price adjustment
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Vodafone, now there's a name that sends shivers down my spine
I was with demon internet for a very long time, then they got bought out by vodafone.
Things just went from bad to worse, vf slowly dismantled demon, and everything that made it good from the inside out, demon like Zen was largley people who knew what they where doing, and vf didn't like it one bit, because they couldn't tell us bull crap and Rob is off when ever we had to phone them. Month by month the services for worse, month by month we got "well but our super duper whatever package, or else put up & shut up", month after month out prices sky rocketed while we got less service, less quality....
Even after I left vf to goto zen, they still tried to screw me over for early termination clauses and other bs in a contract that they themselves didn't honor.
Day I left was the happiest day of my digital life
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I know what you say... but as I have been lucky... I can't complain.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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I have been with PlusNet for a few years now, and this year they actually dropped the price on both phone and broadband.
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So, as Secretary of our social club, I was not best pleased with our phone/broadband supplier - we never got a penny knocked off during the time we've been shut down.
I discover Virgin can now do business fibre where we are and I could save about £40 a month and have 5 x the current bandwidth which is handy at weekends when lots of people might be streaming different sporting events on tablets.
The first team arrive on site and claim to have run cable from the green box to the pavement in front of the building. "Ah, there's a car park between pavement and building (yes, the one I told you about!) so we need a disc cutter to make a channel for the cable. Sorry, we aren't qualified on the disc cutter."
A day or two later another gang arrives unannounced and I miss them and so no disc cutting has taken place.
Yesterday, by chance, I pop in to find two more chaps walking up and down the pavement with a length of plastic ducting sticking up through an access cover in the pavement. I tell then where to find me if there are any problems. They disappear without a word and no disc cutting has taken place.
Today is install day so myself and another are ready for an 8am possible start. At 7:50am I get an email to tell me that yesterday's gang encountered a blockage and they couldn't get the cable through. I did point out (reasonably politely) that had the two chaps yesterday told us there was a problem then we wouldn't need to have two people on site at 8 bloody am with the whole day kept clear.
Disc cutting still not done.
6 hours now elapsed with no update as to what happens next.
So yes, changing providers can be great fun.
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When I told Comcast that I no longer wanted the TV and "land-line" (VOIP really) options of my "triple play" deal (my contract just expired on that day) the web-page refused to offer me any deals that weren't another triple play, nothing else was available. So I rang them up and after a looooong wait I spoke to a robot who I eventually persuaded to connect me to a real person who, expressed total amazement that I didn't watch TV and complete acceptance that I didn't need the "land-line" since he could check that I hadn't made a single call on it in the last two years (and since I turned the ringer off had never answered the hundreds of cold calls). Eventually I convinced him that I didn't watch TV and he gave me a simple deal for just internet, increasing the speed from 300MB to 1,200Mb, at half the price of my triple play - only available if you call to get it, not on the web-site.
Negotiation by phone is worth the wait sometimes.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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� Forogar � wrote: Negotiation by phone is worth the wait sometimes.
Yeah, specially when you endly get to speak with a person and you are lucky enough to get one that is not a complete assh... / moron
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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VOLA - 24 Light-Years[^]
Just two more days until the new VOLA album is released!
Their debut is one of my favorite albums ever (and they've been SOTW at least twice).
After that, their second was a bit of a let down, although still good it lacked some of the power of the first.
Now they've released some new singles and 24 Light-Years is among the best they've released since their debut!
Looking forward to the third
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It sounds like a Christmas song being played backwards and underwater, with Chris Martin singing over the top of it...
It's not bad end result though 
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