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OG wrote: the ones that can code are generally those that are still in the industry after 30 years
Yes, though I'd say that if they're still coding after even 10 years, they either enjoy it--which probably means they're good at it--or they're so hopeless that they can't even be shunted into another role, like scrum master, manager, or marketer. It should be easy to figure out which of these is the case.
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Although the younger ones aren't as experienced they no only work cheaper but are willing to work longer to make up for lack of experience. Only problem is once they do get the experience they move on to greener pastures.
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So thats the reason for this?
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I'm 67 and got my current contract when I was 61 - I've always kept up with the latest tech and I can hold my own with most people - as JSOP once said I'm old I know stuff 
"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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I could have written that myself. Over the last 4 years I managed a transition from a desktop programmer to an ASP.NET programmer and made my employers happy. But people look at me and assume I'm over the hill.
Recursion is for programmers who haven't blown enough stacks yet.
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I sold my first program as a student December 1971. 50 years later I'm still coding and I enjoy it. My official title is IT Manager but I leave the managing to ambitious youngsters while I code, tweak and refactor. Last year I switched from VB .Net to C# and now I'm starting to learn Python.
I've never regretted this path and given the option I would do it again. Knuth wrote about the "Art of Computer Programming" and art it is. Every day I discover new things and enjoy the beauty I find in this art.
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I would say it depends.
I also would put my ability to get work done and out the door up against anyone! and I mean anyone. I have frequently at past 40 age (52) coded 2 or 3, 20year olds into the ground. I might appear to go slower but at the end of the work day I get far more done. Just because I know that taking my time and checking my work is better than lots of effort with no reward. Abe Lincoln quote. If I am given a whole day to cut down a tree. I am going to spend 6 hours sharpening my axe.
Also, Last year this time I lost my job. I got multiple job offers during the year and beat out lots of younger people for jobs just because I knew my stuff and also, I was very willing to admit when I didn't know my stuff.
Sometimes people are posting for Junior or early mid and they really want the senior. But they want to pay for Junior. All you have to do is sell them on what you deliver for them. I in all truth can say that I am always replaced with 2-3 people when I move on from a position. 2-3 Juniors at 60k are the same or more than 1 senior at 120k. I am worth it. Trust me.
I also cannot state this strongly enough. You have to demonstrate that you will be a team player. And not just with the other IT people but a team player for the whole company. You have to be willing to work with anyone at anytime. You cannot be a prima donna.
I think that about covers it.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Quote: I have frequently at past 40 age (52) coded 2 or 3, 20year olds into the ground.
That's not the question. The question is: would the 52 years old you code into the ground the 30 years old you?
Mircea
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quite possibly. I remember working as a 28 year old with a guy who was 50 something. I learned so much from Ron. and he got his crap done and then went home. and I was still struggling. So yes I believe an experienced 50 year old could be 30 year old Rod.
To err is human to really elephant it up you need a computer
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Good for you in this case!
In my case, at a point I realized the 30 years old me would run circles around the 60 years old me. I was working for a very good guy/company so I thought I cannot in good conscience ask for a raise. Also, other things outside my work became very important and I decided to draw a line.
Each one has a different path but I still believe age is a difficult obstacle to overcome for professional programmers.
Mircea
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It might be true when it comes to standard work, but then you run into an unexpected design issue.
Seems to happen every day with my current contract. The younger developers are grinding through their tasks, and I am taking a bit longer. But then they come across an application using some technology new to them, such as writing an installer in WIX, and get stuck in how to proceed. They know that they can ask me for my help and experience, especially as I have worked with installer tech and WIX for over 10 years.
This is where we older developers shine - we have that experience with many different technologies if we took the time over the years to keep learning.
I should also mention that while these younger developers are whipping through their work, I am taking the time to understand the context of the code I am working on, cleaning up stranded code, searching for security vulnerabilities in outdated packages, and other similar cleanup work. I like to leave a project in better shape than when I found it....
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As I said, we all have different paths and, for sure, different brains so I'm not going to argue too much.
Quote: This is where we older developers shine - we have that experience with many different technologies if we took the time over the years to keep learning.
Agreed. We can be very useful to help the younger ones but what I was talking about was coding.
Don't know about others, but me, when I look at code I wrote when I was 30-35 years old, I'm in awe how nice and clean it is; tight, everything fits, no loose ends. I long for the time when I would go through a 300 pages API in an afternoon and then know it. Not just knowing that something exists but actually knowing the API calls and parameters and all. Those were the good days and I feel grateful I had the chance to enjoy them.
I just feel that now it's the time to move aside and eventually try to pass some of that experience to those who come behind.
Thos who can, do. Those who cannot, teach. Those who cannot do and cannot teach, manage.
Mircea
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Younger people are more likely to work 80+ hours a week and only expect to be paid for 40.
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They compensate experience with resiliency
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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The youngsters may spend a day fixing a bug and write a couple hundred lines of code. An experienced developer will spend the time and fix the one line, and remove 50 lines of dead code, leaving things better than they were.
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
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Older developers have wives and lives, and aren't as willing to work 60+ hour weeks.
Older developers are a lot more skilled, and demand higher salaries.
Older developers typically have lower tolerance for corporate absurdity.
Older developers are less receptive to "change for the sake of change", and would rather wring every last drop of usefulness out of "legacy" APIs than inject new untested code into the main project branch.
Older developers are often viewed as rude and opinionated, when in fact, they're just being pragmatic. Most managers can't even spell "pragmatic".
So yeah, it's harder for older developers to find work.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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 to all your points
"I didn't mention the bats - he'd see them soon enough" - Hunter S Thompson - RIP
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Older developers are closer to retirement and can't be bothered to play the game anymore. 
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#realJSOP wrote: Older developers are a lot more skilled, and demand higher salaries.
As a generalisation that may be true. However there comes a point where a good developer is in it more for the kicks than the money. If they're coding because they can, because it's part of their lifestyle, because they enjoy it; and the mortgage is paid, the kids have left home, they can afford to pick the work they want to do and may not be so fussed about the hourly rate. And underlying all the above comments about productivity, is value-for-money. If someone is working smarter not harder, they're giving more bang for the buck.
Speaking personally, and addressing the OP's actual question: no, I'm finding it easier to acquire work the older I get. Note I say "acquire" not "find", because I haven't looked for work in years; work looks for me, and if I like it, I take it. (Though no actual new clients for a few years now, by choice!)
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DerekT-P wrote: Speaking personally, and addressing the OP's actual question: no, I'm finding it easier to acquire work the older I get. Note I say "acquire" not "find", because I haven't looked for work in years; work looks for me, and if I like it, I take it. (Though no actual new clients for a few years now, by choice!)
It reads that you are freelancing / working on your own. In this case and with a strong portfolio... yes.
But the OP is speaking about being employee and looking for another job in a company. That's totally different, and age might be a disadvantage
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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You have to find an "old" company owner. And I stress "owner". You'll never get past HR or the "we're a young company" manager types.
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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Experienced developers are not fresh noobs out of school with a great resume. They have or should have developed a network.
If an older developer is doing battle with HR, they've picked the wrong battle.
+5 to everything John said. An older developer cannot play the same game as some 20 something.
The op needs to think more outside of the box and not play the corporate game. Right now, I'm looking for a FORTRAN person who can help migrate / rewrite an application into the 21st century. But that means I get nothing but expensive old farts  like me.
As for cognitive ability, I declare BS for that argument. The issue is so much larger as others have commented. Our industry is very, very broad. Being fast with an elegant solution to the wrong problem (and I've seen a lot of those for you whiz kids) means I just make more $$ being happy to help.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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I was never part of any "old boys' network" ... and I would never join a group that would have me as a member.
And since it's against the law to ask for your age, the "battle" as you call it, only starts in the interview when you show up in a suit and they're wearing a t-shirt ... and yeah, I check the "company profile".
Anyway, for the last 20 years all my work has been remote where I didn't have to submit a "picture".
As for your "FORTRAN" requirement, that's a useless specification if one also has to know about mass equilibrium calculations or petrochemical fracturing. You need a better "job description".
As for the $, my rate varies with the skill the job requires.
It's your "general attitude", that slots all of us "old guys", that is part of the problem.
"Old fart" is right.
(And who is "John"?)
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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If the application were that special, I would agree. I've been looking for someone who can read and understand what a statement does. For me, trying to swap from FORTRAN source to C++ can make my head hurt from time to time.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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