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David O'Neil wrote: software patents are being given for 'obvious' inventions
OK - you are living in the US of A.
A generation ago, the difference between the patent regimes in the US and the rest of the Western world was far greater, but still a lot of it remains. One major difference is that in the US, patents are easily granted. Then it is up to contestants to prove your patent invalid, and ask for it to be revoked - which is also a not uncommon event.
European patent offices demand that a patent should have a certain "height of invention" - it should display something that is clearly identifiable as something significantly new. Otherwise, the patent is not granted. A consequence of this is that in Europe, very few patents are revoked. When a European reads about US patents being revoked, the common reaction is: How the elephant could that patent have been granted in the first place?
That said: Quite often, and maybe more so in software than mechanical engineering, you quite often hear the voice of the Columbus critics: "I could have done that, too!" The problem is: You didn't! A creative idea doesn't have to be complex, difficult to understand. It suffices that it is creative.
Let me take a classical example: The set-uid/gid mechanism. Today, we find it trivial - anybody could have made up that; it is just looking at a bit to grant rights. And it was rejected as software patent. But the software logic was reworked into an electronic circuit of logic gates; that could be patented! (US Patent 4135240[^]. So, did the patenting of setuid/setgid curb software invention?
Another side of it: Even as an electronic circuit, US Patent 4135240 has no effect in Europe. All patents are national. There is no such thing as a "world patent". The closest we can get is that when an inventor applies for, say, a Norwegian patent, identical to the already granted Swedish patent, the Norwegian authorities may say "OK, we trust that the Swedish authorities have done proper research before granting their patent, so we don't have to repeat all of that research!" Yet they are two different patents, each applying in their countries and in no other countries. (Don't expect them to have similar confidence in granted US patents!  )
In some business areas, if you cannot sell to the US of A market, it isn't worth starting production at all. And you know that if you don't protect your business, by patenting your inventions in the US, you can take for granted that the famous entrepreneurship of US business will take it out of your hands. So obtaining patent rights for the US market is essential - for that market. And, even though a competitor could use your invention to sell products based on it in Lithuania, say, if it is patented in the US, lots of manufacturers conclude that the bird has flown away.
Yet, people criticizing the Chinese for "stealing US patents" have not understood realities. If all you've got is a US patent (you didn't want to spend the registration fees and annual fees for every country in the world) then your invention has no legal protection at all within China. They may produce whatever they want, based on that invention, and sell it all over China. And all over the rest of Asia, if you never applied for patents in those countries. And all over Europe, if you trusted a US patent to be valid here.
There is a great world outside the US of A (Surprise! Surprise!) If you believe that as long as you have handled the US marked, everything else is a minor matter, then you may be off for a surprise. Not the least regarding the Chinese creativity and entrepreneurship.
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You are overlooking the 'prior art' portion of patents. I don't know about China, but if it does have a 'prior art' clause in its laws (like the European link given), they should not grant patents on items patented in other parts of the world because it isn't 'new.' If they do have a prior art clause, but don't enforce royalty payments when that prior art falls outside of Chinese borders, then other nations would rightfully view their actions as stealing.
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Actually, they need not have any patent system at all! In any case, what is covered by a Chinese patent, is totally irrelevant outside China. Every country is on its own in patent matters. The coordination of European patents is just for simplifying the paperwork, and to ensure that the different national European patents are interpreted in similar ways. Legally, they are still independent. And you have to pay fees in every country for holding up your patent.
Note that US and European patent laws differ with regard to "prior art", in the sense of how much you can reveal about your invention before applying for at patent, say, in presenting a scientific paper at a conference.
You may of course say that according to your interpretation of "prior art", you have the right to claim that "rightfully", The Chinese are thieves! - that goes by "freedom of speech". Someone else may say that "You are using open source code, developed by others, without paying anything for it! You are a thief!" - also by "freedom of speech". The idea of open source is that no one said that you couldn't use it. And if you didn't patent your invention in China, in Chinese language, you didn't tell the Chinese that they couldn't use it.
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You seem to be implying that you can get a patent in Europe for something that is patented in USA. Reading the European website, I don't get that impression:
Quote: Prior art is any evidence that your invention is already known.
...Many inventions never become products, yet there may be evidence of them somewhere. That evidence - whatever form it may take - will be prior art.
...The most important place for further prior art searching is the worldwide patent system.
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No, you can't get a patent, but the holder of the US patent (and no European one) cannot sue you for infringing on his patent if you make use of it, building and selling products on the European market. You cannot sell on the US market, but Europe lays open to you.
If it really were so that patents curb creativity, while freedom from patents stimulate it, then seeking a US patent but no Chinese will stimulate Chinese creativity but curb American creativity. So maybe the right thing to do, to fight Chinese creative and commercial takeover, would be to apply for a Chinese patent, but not for a US one
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As David says, the patents given for 'obvious' inventions are a problem in themselves.
An additional problem is that patents (even for non-'obvious' inventions) are a licence to prevent others from using your patent, and they are good for 20 years - an eternity in development time. That means that even if I have an idea that builds on an existing patent, I must either receive a licence for the patent, or must spend the effort (and assume the risk) of trying to invent around the patent.
The example that was used in a seminar about patent law that I attended was a bicycle - if A patents a bicycle, and B patents a motor for the bicycle, which of them may manufacture motorized bicycles? The answer is 'neither'.
IMO, the patent system requires some sort of overhaul, but that is a different discussion...
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Neither may manufacture motorized bicycles, but both will probably end up doing so because cross-licensing is common.
Even though I dislike software patents and would replace them with copyright, I don't think they're the problem when it comes to software stagnation. Unlike other "engineered" products--arguably an inappropriate term for software--software is expected to continually evolve to meet changing requirements. That makes it hard (Brooks' No Silver Bullet).
Also, no one is in a software business. They're in the business associated with the end product that happens to contain software. Many of these firms see their software team as a cost center. Those running The Business are the ones rewarded with high pay and bonuses, and there is little understanding of the importance of software design excellence, let alone how to achieve it.
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Greg Utas wrote: Also, no one is in a software business. They're in the business associated with the end product that happens to contain software. Many of these firms see their software team as a cost center.
Greg Utas wrote: Those running The Business are the ones rewarded with high pay and bonuses, and there is little understanding of the importance of software design excellence, let alone how to achieve it.
I think, therefore I am underpaid... 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: if A patents a bicycle, and B patents a motor for the bicycle, which of them may manufacture motorized bicycles? The answer is 'neither'.
Or rather: Both.
In industry, "I'll give you mine, if you give me yours!" is a very common affair. "Patent pools" are common: Some technologies are based on contributions from a large number of sources - a characteristic example: digital radio, DAB. All significant contributors to the pool can freely use all the other contributions to the pool.
If you are not a member of the pool (or the patent is a free-standing one): In traditional industry, it is commonly accepted that if you make use of somebody else's work, you give your contribution to cover the development expenses.
The problem with (parts of) the software world is that developers have built an expectation: "I will make bicycles for sale, and you manufacture motors for bicycles - so ship me a truckload of motors for me to use, at no charge." That is a great way to ensure that the motor manufacturer will modify his motor so it won't fit with your bicycle, using proprietary screws for fastening or distance between holes in centicubits or something like that. (We have seen numerous examples of that in the software industry - both IBM and DEC was widely known for adhering to international standards, sort of ... always adding some twist. If you had bought one software package from them, it would cooperate so-and-so with products from other vendors, but work fine if you threw that away and went for a pure IBM or DEC software suite.)
Daniel Pfeffer wrote: IMO, the patent system requires some sort of overhaul
I think lots of people agree that the patent system of the United States requires some overhaul. Too many people believe that US patents is all there is, or rather: The American Way is The Way it is Done.
That is certainly not the case. European patent systems are generally far more reasonable. Software patents may be granted, but like all other patents: The invention must be new and have a clearly identifiable "invention height". It must represent some real creativity. The US patent regime has come much closer to The European Way over the last few decades, but there still is a way to go.
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trønderen wrote: Or rather: Both.
In industry, "I'll give you mine, if you give me yours!" is a very common affair. "Patent pools" are common: Some technologies are based on contributions from a large number of sources - a characteristic example: digital radio, DAB. All significant contributors to the pool can freely use all the other contributions to the pool.
Yes, but this is not the default state. The various companies must agree to cross-license their patents.
trønderen wrote: I think lots of people agree that the patent system of the United States requires some overhaul. Too many people believe that US patents is all there is, or rather: The American Way is The Way it is Done.
I don't know much about patent law, so I won't comment.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: Yes, but this is not the default state.
Certainly not in the sense that some automatic mechanism establishes a patent pool or cross-licensing agreement.
Nevertheless, it is widespread and common to "voluntarily" establish such agreements.
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More than 200 employees in the United States have formed the "Alphabet Workers Union." Look for...the union label...when you are doing...a Google search
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I'm surprised it's not the "Ex-Alphabet Workers Union" by now.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Maybe one of them was the best lawyer but the worst paid in the department?
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Hmm, possibly. But I suspect those troublemakers valued employees would have an unusually high incidence of totally random, tragically fatal accidents.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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Loeb believes that Oumuamua, an oddly shaped object that briefly visited our solar system in 2017, was most likely an alien probe And it didn't stop to visit? That's just rude.
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Maybe they did.
cough...COVID-19...cough.
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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I think you need to quarantine.
I’ve given up trying to be calm. However, I am open to feeling slightly less agitated.
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Beam me up, Scotty; there's no intelligent life here.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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His next book should be "how I destroyed my career", but this is Harvard.
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Probably tenured. Unless caught fooling around with a student or saying something against the <fatuous idea of the month>, they'll carry him out feet first.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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wait 'til you see what's arriving next: Ousyurdaddie
«One day it will have to be officially admitted that what we have christened reality is an even greater illusion than the world of dreams.» Salvador Dali
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A couple of months ago, we ran into a tricky race condition with the way we were handling temporary files. It took a while to track down, but ended up being a good example of how C#’s garbage collection (GC) works, so I wanted to turn it into a blog post. To dream the impossible dream - to manage the unmanaged object...
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Microsoft looks to be finally moving to a true, single Outlook client, but it may not be available as part of Windows 10 until 2022, according to a new report. One Outlook to find them, One Outlook to read them all, and in the darkness email them
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