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obermd30-Dec-20 3:35

obermd

30-Dec-20 3:35

So 8 out of 10 people have figured out that masks do nothing to prevent the spread of a virus. Bottom line, don't cough or sneeze on other people (it's always been rude).

Multiple studies, including one in Denmark that was released Thanksgiving week, have now shown that masks have no statistical impact on the spread of any viral disease.

OriginalGriff30-Dec-20 3:58

OriginalGriff

30-Dec-20 3:58

And multiple studies show they do: Efficacy of masks and face coverings in controlling outward aerosol particle emission from expiratory activities | Scientific Reports[^] for example.

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Cp-Coder30-Dec-20 4:06

Cp-Coder

30-Dec-20 4:06

Hear! Hear!

Get me coffee and no one gets hurt!

Mike Hankey30-Dec-20 4:04

Mike Hankey

30-Dec-20 4:04

82M cases of covid worldwide, 19M of those are US. I guess those 8 out of 10 have figured that facemasks aren't fashionable and don't care about anyone but themselves.
Not everyone covers their cough or sneezes.

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5teveH30-Dec-20 4:23

30-Dec-20 4:23

Yep, the interweb is a wonderful thing - if you want to get you and your loved ones killed. There's always going to be someone, somewhere telling you exactly what you want to hear. I have not looked into the science, but surely, even if there is only a slim chance that a mask will protect yourself and others, it makes sense to wear it. Or you can just do what I do and stay in 24x7.

According to my wife, (who does have to go out - to work), there are still plenty of people by us, (Northants, UK), still not wearing masks. So it's not surprising that, later today, we are going to have Boris tell us that we are going to get more restrictions. I doubt it will make much difference though. People just don't seem to get it. Until we introduce a Tier 11, (with an 8pm curfew, and snipers on the rooftops), I don't think we are going to stop the spread! Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

W∴ Balboos, GHB30-Dec-20 4:53

W∴ Balboos, GHB

30-Dec-20 4:53

5teveH wrote:
Until we introduce a Tier 11, (with an 8pm curfew, and snipers on the rooftops)

You know, those snipers may take out a few . . . the rest of the morons will probably take that as a hint.

Net result is many lives saved whilst the carcass's of those "sacraficed for the greater good" are picked at by crows.

You may yet get my vote for some office.

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

F-ES Sitecore30-Dec-20 5:13

30-Dec-20 5:13

5teveH wrote:
with an 8pm curfew

Because viri don't come out until after 8pm. Keep listening to that science Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

5teveH30-Dec-20 6:31

30-Dec-20 6:31

F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Because viri don't come out until after 8pm. Keep listening to that science

You forgot to quote the "snipers" bit. I don't know about the curfew, but I'm pretty sure that snipers is scientifically proven!

To be honest, I don't give a sh!t about the science. I just take note of what's happening in the real world. And, here in the UK, we've had 50K+ new cases two days running and nearly 1000 deaths yesterday. Our hospitals are at capacity and the NHS staff are at breaking point. Clearly the measures currently in place aren't working - because people are not sticking to the rules. So the only way this is going, is up. More cases. More deaths. And more restrictions.

F-ES Sitecore30-Dec-20 15:58

30-Dec-20 15:58

5teveH wrote:
the measures currently in place aren't working - because people are not sticking to the rules

Or maybe they're not working because they just don't work and\or are simply not compatible with human life? Maybe repeatedly doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is simply a sign of madness?

5teveH30-Dec-20 20:09

30-Dec-20 20:09

F-ES Sitecore wrote:
Maybe repeatedly doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results is simply a sign of madness?

And maybe its grim desperation and a lack of any alternative. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that viruses spread when people congregate. And, yes, I understand that asking people to stop congregating, is contrary to normal human existence. But desperate times, require desperate measures.

And, BTW, lock-down in March did stop the spread, so I don't think repeating that and expecting the same result, is madness. It's already a proven effective option - albeit with significant social and financial consequences. But I'm sure the government would be more than happy to hear from anyone who can suggest a better option.....

F-ES Sitecore31-Dec-20 9:32

31-Dec-20 9:32

5teveH wrote:
And, BTW, lock-down in March did stop the spread,

So why is it still here? The November lockdown was so we wouldn't be locked down over Christmas and after November the lockdowns continued ever more harshly not just for Christmas but the whole of December and now with literally no end in sight. Who knows, keep locking us down, maybe one of them will work?

5teveH wrote:
But I'm sure the government would be more than happy to hear from anyone who can suggest a better option.....

Are you sure? Really? When was the last time you heard the phrase "herd immunity"? The thing that has got humans through things way worse than something with a 99% survival rate.

5teveH3-Jan-21 5:29

3-Jan-21 5:29

I am happy to accept that we will have to agree to disagree on this, but I have to correct your interpretation of what I said. "stop the spread" does not mean "eradicate" and I was not suggesting lock-down would do that.

And I'm pretty sure that "herd immunity" would have been considered, but quickly discounted once the consequences were considered - i.e: millions seriously ill; 100,000s dead; and the complete overwhelming of the NHS. That doesn't seem like a 'policy' a Government is ever going to be brave enough to go with! So, it's not even an option, never mind a better option.

Rich Leyshon30-Dec-20 23:32

Rich Leyshon

30-Dec-20 23:32

F-ES Sitecore wrote:
they just don't work and\or are simply not compatible with human life?

Being killed by a disease is also noticeably incompatible with human life.

F-ES Sitecore31-Dec-20 9:35

31-Dec-20 9:35

Rich Leyshon wrote:
Being killed by a disease is also noticeably incompatible with human life.

A disease that has killed less than 400 (otherwise) healthy people under the age of 60 in a country with a population of 66,000,000. I'll take my chances Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

Rich Leyshon31-Dec-20 10:16

Rich Leyshon

31-Dec-20 10:16

Great, but how many people that aren't as healthy get infected by those that go on to recover?

I speak as someone who had a colleague with no major underlying health issues (admittedly getting on a bit) that died.

F-ES Sitecore31-Dec-20 11:43

31-Dec-20 11:43

The average age of people who die "from" covid-1984 is the same as the average age people die anyway. There is no statistical significance of covid over any other cause of death in the elderly.

Rich Leyshon31-Dec-20 13:50

Rich Leyshon

31-Dec-20 13:50

I'll tell his widow, she'll be very comforted.

W∴ Balboos, GHB30-Dec-20 4:49

W∴ Balboos, GHB

30-Dec-20 4:49

obermd wrote:
Multiple studies,

That SCREAMS with the logic of what you didn't put down: and that was what MOST studies have shown.

You find and believe what you want to find and believe. QAnon relied up that frame of "logic" to get a following.

Ravings en masse^
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010

Jörgen Andersson30-Dec-20 4:58

Jörgen Andersson

30-Dec-20 4:58

Masks are generally poor at protecting the wearer.

The Danish study you refer to, only measured whether the wearer was protected or not, and the result only showed a small difference that was not statistically significant.

The whole point with wearing a mask is to protect others, that's the reason a surgeon is wearing a mask while operating.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger

Jörgen Andersson30-Dec-20 4:44

Jörgen Andersson

30-Dec-20 4:44

Over here (Sweden), people are pretty good at keeping the distance, but you're not obliged to wear a mask, so less than one third does.

I have noticed though that when I wear one other keep better distance to me.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger

Johnny J.30-Dec-20 6:31

Johnny J.

30-Dec-20 6:31

Jörgen Andersson wrote:
I have noticed though that when I wear one other keep better distance to me.

Well, that's because you're wearing a hockey mask and people have seen Friday the 13th! D'Oh! | :doh:

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Jörgen Andersson30-Dec-20 9:10

Jörgen Andersson

30-Dec-20 9:10

I don't do hockey.
But you might be on the right track... Balaclava (clothing) - Wikipedia[^]

The baseball bat probably doesn't help either.

Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Never stop dreaming - Freddie Kruger

Greg Utas30-Dec-20 4:59

Greg Utas

30-Dec-20 4:59

I'm appalled by some of the self-righteousness in this thread. Even the "authorities" have said conflicting things, but anyone who doesn't adhere to the "facts" as some people see them is to be vilified.

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Chris Maunder30-Dec-20 7:53

Chris Maunder

30-Dec-20 7:53

And I'm appalled that people want to grandstand for the sake of grandstanding in the face of common sense and courtesy to others.

Just because something isn't 100% effective doesn't mean it's "bad" or "of no use".

Every. Bit. Counts.

Me? I wear a mask. I wash my hands. I keep my distance from others. I limit my shopping and try and go at quiet times. I don't bubble with other families. None of these, in isolation, will work. Together, they reduce my risk, and hence the risk to my family and neighbours and the old guy down the road, but a measurable amount.

If we all stop acting like this is someone else's problem to deal with then we'd all be able to get back to a semblance of normality. The bookend to Rights are Responsibilities.

However, I constantly question the science, and try to keep up with the latest, always evolving understanding of this pandemic. I'm not in a position to say "washing hands reduces the risk by X%" or "wearing a mask helps by Y%". For all we know it could be eating celery is what we all actually need to do. Who knows?

But in the meantime I will do what's asked and wear a mask because it's pathetically easy, it doesn't hurt, it fits in with my basic understanding of the mechanics of virus transmission in general, and because it's a simple gesture to say to my community "I'll do this tiny, tiny bit to help".

cheers
Chris Maunder