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Dev and Ops not the same thing; if you can afford it, you separate them.
Like a plumber/electrical engineer. You might get more profit selling your people, but one is not the other.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Well I'm just quoting the title... be more specific? 
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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More specific, a plumbgeneer is an allrounder, but master of neither.
Not doing anything cloudy; here, we own our data.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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lol, what you have a PhD posting obscure comments and more obscure follow up?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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If you can afford it, you don't separate them!
I've had to manage multiple people for my kitchen.
First electricity and plumbing, then the kitchen, then the walls and then the floors.
It's impossible to get all those separate people on the same schedule.
And then the plumber will put the plumbing wrong because they've never even met the kitchen guy.
Oh, and that outlet is NOT where the microwave is supposed to come, but luckily the kitchen guy knows a thing or two about that.
It also takes two months because the kitchen guy has time tomorrow or four weeks from now, but the electrician can't come until the day after tomorrow...
Also, the floor people come a day early and the kitchen isn't ready yet.
Wouldn't be great if all these people were on the same team so they could actually discuss how to best install my kitchen?
It would take a week instead of two months and the amount of "bugs" (wrong placement of outlets etc.) would be way less!
That's what DevOps is all about...
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We use it as source control and build machine...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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Are you a pure MS shop? Any customization?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Part of the build is actually an agent we host on our server...
Also have steps in our pipelines, like minification and publish to multiple targets that we wrote...
We also have a 'project' that we use to host certain versions of libraries for NuGet (a total control over versions and updates)...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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We're using Azure DevOps. To be honest, I don't find it as conceptually clear or easy to use as GitHub (or Gitea or several other open source products), but maybe that's because it's 'Enterprise'...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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My company uses it for everything and we have a huge organization with code all over the place, including all the code for Mac and Linux and mobile. It is now more tied to Git than to TFS, so it really doesn't matter what you are coding. The web interface works, so you are no longer tied to only using Visual Studio's installed UI.
Have the things compile and terraform to linux docker containers with .net core, so cross-platform is a cinch.
Management, PMs, Devs, everyone is in it daily.
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Good stuff, but the AZ DevOps 400 course had errors in it in the example YAML code. First one I encounter was a simple syntax error. Second one stopped me in my tracks. From what I was able to get from others who'd taken the training, they make changes to Azure DevOps and the training isn't necessarily updated accordingly. I provided MS feedback a month or more ago and have heard nothing.
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we were using it for the DevOps, but moved to Github. Now we just use it for App registrations so we can use it for Auth. But no plans for having any hosted apps running on it. Too expensive and cumbersome, and we would still have to pipe a channel to our database servers to work with the data, just not worth it IMO.
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In the UK, a telephone subscriber is (was?) signaled by sending 90 volts across one side of the two-wire circuit and ground (earth). When the phone is answered, it switches to the two-wire circuit for conversation. This method allows two parties on the same line to be signaled without disturbing each other.
An elderly man called British Telecom engineers to say that his telephone nearly always failed to ring when his friends called. On the few occasions when it did ring, his dog always barked first. A technician climbed a nearby pole, connected his test set, and dialed the house. The phone didn't ring.
On investigation, it was found that the dog was tied to the telephone system's ground post via an iron chain and collar, and was receiving 90 volts of signaling current. After several jolts, the dog urinated on the ground and barked. The wet ground then conducted and the phone rang.
modified 22-Sep-20 11:34am.
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What impedance does the dog need to have for this to work?
I have lived with several Zen masters - all of them were cats.
His last invention was an evil Lasagna. It didn't kill anyone, and it actually tasted pretty good.
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Good question, but you're asking the wrong person.
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The cockney rhyming slang for a phone is - dog and bone.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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That's a fantastic story. I'm only adding mine for fun now, since yours has mine beat by miles.
20 years ago I was playing with an auto-transformer circuit and a bistable vibrator with discrete parts on a breadboard - both powered from a couple of AA cells. Something distracted my one saturday morning so I tossed it all to one side.
A couple of weeks later when playing with it again, while watching music videos on the telly, I noticed that a band of interference appeared across the top 1/4 of the screen - timed perfectly with the flashing LED. Hmmmmmm!
The next day the fella across the road asked if we'd also had problems with TV reception for the last couple of weeks, saying he'd been unable to enjoy anything with all the interference.
I never did let on that it was me.. 
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enhzflep wrote: I was playing with an auto-transformer circuit and a bistable vibrator...
That'll be all for today, children.
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Hmm. I wonder how many read that and had no idea what I was talking about.
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Kent Sharkey wrote: What's on TV at 7am in Wale
Bugger all.
"Breakfast TV news magazine shows", and (on satellite) the usual load of old rubbish you can watch at any time of day: repeats of repeats of reality shows featuring ohgodwhatsthepointjustkillmenow.
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Had it been me, the story might have read,
Quote: Jones said the resident was "mortified overjoyed" by the news and "immediately agreed to switch it off and not use again....for a freakishly large amount of cash"
"the debugger doesn't tell me anything because this code compiles just fine" - random QA comment
"Facebook is where you tell lies to your friends. Twitter is where you tell the truth to strangers." - chriselst
"I don't drink any more... then again, I don't drink any less." - Mike Mullikins uncle
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I heard a similar story from OpenReach technicians trying to fix my fibre broadband when it was playing up - they mentioned several other cases in the city where I live where old TVs caused sufficient interference to generate enough noise on a copper line to bring down ADSL broadband. The person with the old TV was offered a new TV in exchange for the old one - problem solved.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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Is a good composer too hot to Handel?
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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