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obermd wrote: I cancelled my Sears credit card
Ahh, so THAT's the reason they went bankrupt!
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Anyone here have a development organization that might/is/has transitioned to this product?
I don't want to drink the MS cool-aid but it looks pretty impressive. But it's not my $$ 
Would love to hear some feedback...
---------------------------------------------
Clarification: I mainly work in an embedded development shop and about all of our processes are manual. We have a few scripts to do builds plus Bugzilla and Subversion. I'd appreciate thoughts on how to slowly jump into the Azure pool.
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
modified 22-Sep-20 12:43pm.
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We use it for Work Items and Source Control. Works great for what we need.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Tell me about your team... is it just you grunts, or is management involved working the scrum line and sprints?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Small team. We don't use the sprints.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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We have been using it for at least 2 years now. We are also using the scrum templates (now modified quite a bit, but started with the stock ones). The architecture works well. We are using git and use pull requests to approve dev work. We have deployment pipelines to 4 environments, so it's easy to deploy to any environment with just a click. When a pull request completes, we deploy automatically to the dev environment, then there is an auto deployment to the QA environment during the late night. Deployments to other environments happen manually with a button click and an approval. The whole architecture is soooo much better than it was before 2015.
I can highly recommend it for a Microsoft shop over JIRA and Jenkins.
modified 22-Sep-20 12:27pm.
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Do you have people managing the tool?
Context: I'm in an embedded organization with management that sort of has an idea about software. The presentation I saw today was somewhat "big picture" with stakeholders, developers, etc. There seemed to be some overhead in order to manage everything....
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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We have one developer in our group who makes changes to the pipelines and build servers. At this point, he doesn't have much to do on a daily basis, and most of his time is devoted to regular development on our product. We have a group of about 10 developers and about 6 business analysts and 5 qa testers. The business analysts take the business feature requests and create features and pbis and write up the requirements. The business analysts keep the backlog in priority. The developers groom the backlog once or twice a week to estimate complexity. The business analysts set up the sprints and the developers determine what can get done in the sprint. Sometimes there are too many items in the sprint, and we work with business analysts to determine what to move to the next sprint and what to keep. Sometimes we can complete more work, so we try to add additional pbis to the sprint, or add some tech debt pbis (which devs have created and groomed earlier) to the sprint.
Over the years, we have added custom status to some of the dropdowns in the pbi and task items, and we have also added some custom fields we track. It's pretty easy to add these items, and the managers usually do it (either the manager of the business analysts, or the dev manager).
Setting up the build environments (build servers and configuration) and release pipelines is the biggest task, but once done, only needs a little maintenance (such as updating the build servers with updated third party libraries).
We use SQL server, WebAPI, vue.js, webpack, node and other web and other .Net Core technology stack.
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Good info, thanks
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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TBH it's gone through some many name changes I'm not really sure what it actually refers to nowadays at this instant.
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I stopped trying to keep track of MS naming conventions. Marketing people...
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Dev and Ops not the same thing; if you can afford it, you separate them.
Like a plumber/electrical engineer. You might get more profit selling your people, but one is not the other.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Well I'm just quoting the title... be more specific?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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More specific, a plumbgeneer is an allrounder, but master of neither.
Not doing anything cloudy; here, we own our data.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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lol, what you have a PhD posting obscure comments and more obscure follow up?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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If you can afford it, you don't separate them!
I've had to manage multiple people for my kitchen.
First electricity and plumbing, then the kitchen, then the walls and then the floors.
It's impossible to get all those separate people on the same schedule.
And then the plumber will put the plumbing wrong because they've never even met the kitchen guy.
Oh, and that outlet is NOT where the microwave is supposed to come, but luckily the kitchen guy knows a thing or two about that.
It also takes two months because the kitchen guy has time tomorrow or four weeks from now, but the electrician can't come until the day after tomorrow...
Also, the floor people come a day early and the kitchen isn't ready yet.
Wouldn't be great if all these people were on the same team so they could actually discuss how to best install my kitchen?
It would take a week instead of two months and the amount of "bugs" (wrong placement of outlets etc.) would be way less!
That's what DevOps is all about...
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We use it as source control and build machine...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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Are you a pure MS shop? Any customization?
Charlie Gilley
<italic>Stuck in a dysfunctional matrix from which I must escape...
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin, 1783
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759
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Part of the build is actually an agent we host on our server...
Also have steps in our pipelines, like minification and publish to multiple targets that we wrote...
We also have a 'project' that we use to host certain versions of libraries for NuGet (a total control over versions and updates)...
"The only place where Success comes before Work is in the dictionary." Vidal Sassoon, 1928 - 2012
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We're using Azure DevOps. To be honest, I don't find it as conceptually clear or easy to use as GitHub (or Gitea or several other open source products), but maybe that's because it's 'Enterprise'...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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My company uses it for everything and we have a huge organization with code all over the place, including all the code for Mac and Linux and mobile. It is now more tied to Git than to TFS, so it really doesn't matter what you are coding. The web interface works, so you are no longer tied to only using Visual Studio's installed UI.
Have the things compile and terraform to linux docker containers with .net core, so cross-platform is a cinch.
Management, PMs, Devs, everyone is in it daily.
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Good stuff, but the AZ DevOps 400 course had errors in it in the example YAML code. First one I encounter was a simple syntax error. Second one stopped me in my tracks. From what I was able to get from others who'd taken the training, they make changes to Azure DevOps and the training isn't necessarily updated accordingly. I provided MS feedback a month or more ago and have heard nothing.
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we were using it for the DevOps, but moved to Github. Now we just use it for App registrations so we can use it for Auth. But no plans for having any hosted apps running on it. Too expensive and cumbersome, and we would still have to pipe a channel to our database servers to work with the data, just not worth it IMO.
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