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Sander Rossel wrote: I guess "giving out personal details to everyone who asks for it" is just another emergency ordinance that just adds insult to injury.
That's wrong.
The correct formulation should be:
"Forcing everyone to ask for your personal data."
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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super wrote: Here Privacy is not an issue because
1. Its not being tracked by govt all the time ?
Be afraid, be very afraid.
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Three weeks ago, the Norwegian public broadcaster (NRK) published a story: For 3500 euro (NOK 35,000), they bought "anonymous" tracking data for 140,000 smartphones for ten months of 2019, more than 400 million positions.
The phne owner was not identified, but when data shows a phone located at the same location every night, you can look up in the phone direcory who lives there. You can see its location eight hours every weekday, revealing where the owner works. Look up the "suspect" in Facebook, and you can have your guesses confirmed (and hook it up to a lot more infor about the owner).
The NRK guys picked one phone as a case study. They found the identy of the guy from were he slept and worked, and made a detail survey of his movements for more than half a year: Were he went with his family in the weekends, which restaurants he had been visiting. They saw that he had spent a lunch break to drive to the address of a competitor in the same trade (and a few weeks later, he started spending working hours at that location). NRK made contact with the guy, who was truly shocked by the detail level, but was willing to participate in a TV program to discuss the disclosures.(Maybe NRK had asked others that refused to participate; they obviously do not tell about that.).
The data also identified several persons as army officers with the highest security clearance: Their phones were traced from their homes into the top security parts of a military installation.
They also identified 8300 phones visiting hospitals, violence shelters etc. Most were clearly employees, but a fair share were temporary visitors, who e.g. arrived on a Friday night without returning to their normal residence until a couple of days later, possibly after a visit to the police station. (For obvious reasons, none of these were asked to participate in the TV program.)
This story has caused quite some uproar, both in the military establishment, at the violence shelters, among politicians and common people. It is still hot in media, after three weeks.
When you see how much can be deduced about your private activities from "anonymous" data that anyone can buy for a moderate sum of money, registering your phone number with the restaurant is like a drop in the ocean. As long as you carry your smartphone with you, anyone can buy information revealing how much time you spent there, how you traveled to the restaurant, where you spend the following night etc.
In theory, you can deny GPS access to all apps. That could severely limit the app's functionality. Some developers choose to depend all functionality on GPS access: One bank insisted that telling the location of their nearest branch office at all times was so essential to their "image" that the entire banking app blocked if you denied GPS access. And: Most of us want to reveal our position to e.g. Facebook friends. We give up this information voluntarily! If you loose your phone, or it is stolen, you want to find/trace it using the associated web service. You want the map app to show your current postition. ... You asked for it, you got it.
Even if you delete all apps, the OS may report your position to the OS developers. Even if you have no smartphone but an old plain GSM phone, it is continously traced by the base stations. Precision is a lot poorer than with GPS, but in city areas with a dense mesh of GSM bases, it may reveal which streets you are walking, tolerance down to +/- 10-20 meters. This info is known only to the network operator, but authorities (police) has the right to access it - and they regularly do.
Your only way to evade continous tracing is to leave your phone at home, or completely turned off. As long as you carry your smartphone with you: Stop worrying about revealing your name, phone number, home address, employer... Those are trivialities. If the spy doesn't know yet, he can easily deduce all of that from the GPS information continously reported by your apps.
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Got a link to the story? (Doesn't matter if it's in Norwegian)
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There are quite a few ...
Avslørt av mobilen[^] - one of the first stories, with this guy that they traced and made contact with to "tell his story".
Norske offiserer og soldater avslørt av mobilen[^] - about the military guys that were traced into the Rena military installation.
Mobilsporing: 8300 mobiler sporet på sykehus og krisesentre[^] - tracing phones in hospital and violence shelters.
Hofstad Helleland om mobilsporings-avsløringen: – Dypt urovekkende[^] - politicians' reactions to the disclosures.
Datatilsynet opnar gransking etter NRK-avsløring[^] - The Norwegian Data Protection Authority reactions to the disclosures, and their (so far unsuccessful) attempts to get in contact with the company selling the data.
Venstre-leder skremt: – Vi er ikke i stand til å sikre våre egne[^] - another politician's reactions to the revelations.
Britisk datatilsyn starter undersøkelser etter NRK-avsløring[^] - the Norwegian DPA is now cooperating with their British counterpart to investigate this British company selling the data.
Guide: Slik begrenser du sporing av din mobil[^] - a guide to Norwegian users on how to reduce the amount of location information your smartphone reveals.
These are the major stories from NRK. The last three are from "NRKbeta", an NRK website presenting all sorts of "nerdy" articles about digital technology and related stuff. NRK stories used to have a "User's comments" column based on Disqus, but when it was revealed that Disqus sells information to others about the readers making comments, NRK cancelled their Readers' Comments column. For the NRKbeta articles, they have a Readers' Comments system developed by themselves, and there are sometimes quite extensive discussions.
There have been several others in other net fora, and it has been discussed in several discussion groups. There has been discussions in radio and TV programs, etc.
Please note a couple points: If you do not read Norwegian yourself, but must rely on e.g. Google translate, the first five stories (the non-NRKbeta ones) are presented in a modern, "fancy" way with floating text frames and video backgorunds etc. You can't easily "Mark All" and paste into Google Translate, but must do it more or less piece by piece.
And, you may be aware that we have two variants of the Norwegian language: The East Norway "bokmål" and the mostly West Norway "nynorsk" (attempting to capture a lot more of the tradional Norwegian dialects). The "Datatilsynet opnar gransking etter NRK-avsløring" story is in nynorsk. Google Translate may be less capable of translating the story to English.
If you do master Norwegian, you might want to watch a TV program NRK presented last November on a closely related problem: They picked one profile in social media to investigate how easily they could make a complete profile of that guy, and how easily they could manipulate him based on this information. In the process, they made undercover contact with the brother of the "victim" to check that it wouldn't involve too large risks. Like in this phone tracing story, after the hoax was revealed, the "victim" was willing to stand up and let the story be told on TV. The program is found at NRK TV – Folkeopplysningen – Sosiale Mehdi[^].
Norwegian subtitles are available; I can mail to you a rough translation to English (assuming that you can download the program an replay it with your translated subtitle file - if you don't, you can find one tailored for NRK at snippsat / Wx_nrk / Downloads[^]), so you can enjoy it even if you do not master Norwegain.
This program is really worth watching!
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Thanks. I'll try struggling through myself this weekend. 
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data collected like this can be prone to misuse... next thing you know it might turn into a who to burgle next list...
Caveat Emptor.
"Progress doesn't come from early risers – progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things." Lazarus Long
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If a restaurant had that out for me to see I'd take a picture of it and send it to the GDPR enforcement folks. GDPR makes no distinction between paper and electronic data storage and that's a flat out violation of GDPR.
Then I'd put in bogus information and walk out.
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Since cash is virtually dead in many places now (and likely to be killed off where it's already on life-support) surely a simpler "tracing" method that requires absolutely no additional data capture and already complies (in theory) with GDPR is for the tracing authorities to be able to trace via card payments?? The card issuer has the cardholder's name and billing address, transactions are time-stamped and available certainly for the timescales in question. True, in a multi-family party it may not track the non bill-payer, but for the purposes of contact tracing it should be possible for the traced person so share the info with the rest of their party. In fact it's better than a "signing-in" sheet because it will be associated with a table number, so that the location of the visitor within the establishment is known and one infected visitor need not result in the whole restaurant's clientele being quarantined.
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argh!
So angry.
not political.
just venting.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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[joke]
Are you testing The Insider News[^] ?
[/joke]
Now seriously, I hope it is nothing or you can get over it soon ![Rose | [Rose]](https://www.codeproject.com/script/Forums/Images/rose.gif)
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Did you see the video? Appalling.
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Yes, I did. And you're right. Appalling doesn't even come close to describing it. Extreme indifference to life.
#SupportHeForShe
Government can give you nothing but what it takes from somebody else. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you've got, including your freedom.-Ezra Taft Benson
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
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I was playing Assassin Creed Odyssey yesterday night...
When I suddenly stumbled upon, and captured, this moment...
Going full American mode, walking away from a building in flame! (in 450 BC Ancient Greece!   )
going-full-murican — ImgBB
Felt kind of good! 
Note: I play Kassandra on the right, it's new game+, I got Isu armor, hence the glowing armor bits are not accidental, but historically accurate Isu technology!
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Using C++, I recently upgraded to VS2019 from VS2017, and of course things in my code has to break. The worst part is the code worked great in debug mode but breaks in release mode. I know it is my fault for not reading the documentation carefully enough and that is how it bit me.
Take this code:
int x = (int)log10(0.0); I now know that taking the log of 0.0 is undefined, but previous versions of VS and VS2019 in debug would return 0, so my code worked as I was expecting and as it has worked for many years. But when I built my program in release mode it was giving me all sorts of errors. Turns out that now log10(0.0) returns -1, or more correctly 0xFFFFFFFF.
So just remember to read the documentation, and if you don't, just because it works on your machine now, does not mean it will work on all machines forever.
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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So... you found a new way C++ help shoot yourself in the foot?
Brilliant!
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PJ Arends wrote: I now know that taking the log of 0.0 is undefined,
The result of log10(0.0) in an IEC 60559 (==IEEE 754) environment is -INFINITY, and raises the "divide by zero" floating-point exception (C-99 Standard Normative Appendix F.9.3.8, included by reference in C++-2012)
The result of casting a value outside the range [INT_MIN, INT_MAX] to int is Undefined Behavior.
Beware - the compiler can do anything in response to Undefined Behavior, from giving a "reasonable" response to formatting your disk to making demons fly out of your nose!
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
modified 28-May-20 2:14am.
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Daniel Pfeffer wrote: Beware - the compiler can do anything in response to Undefined Behavior, from giving a "reasonable" response to formatting your disk to making demons fly out of your nose!
Bonus points for a comp.lang.c reference. I wonder if you have a Blackstar 9000, I think it was, that always did something horrible when UB was invoked?
Keep Calm and Carry On
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k5054 wrote: I wonder if you have a BlackstarDeathstation 9000, I think it was, that always did something horrible when UB was invoked?
(IIRC)
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Thanks for the heads up.
[nitpicky joke]
PJ Arends wrote: I know it is my fault for not reading the documentation carefully enough and that is how it bit me.
Or for not checking the value of the variable for not allowed math expressions / undefined behaviour before using it 
[/joke]
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Quote: Turns out that now log10(0.0) returns -1,
This would be incorrect because the log10(0.1) is -1, i.e. 10 to the power -1 is 0.1. I'm hoping you meant after the cast but this sounds like something mickeysoft would do...
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Yes, this is after the cast. But my whole point was to read the documentation. Just because it works now does not mean it is correct and will always work.
Within you lies the power for good - Use it!
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[too lazy to look it up] how many ships are the Euro's smashing this time around?
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