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Kent Sharkey wrote: "Who's the Boss"
The Boss Baby - Wikipedia[^] 
M.D.V. 
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Kent Sharkey wrote: So it can tell me where I left my keys in the credenza?
That depends, do you have a table that looks like:
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Item | TopLevelLocation | DetailedLocation |
|------|------------------|------------------------------------------|
| ... | | |
| Keys | Credenza | Top left corner, under the pizza reciept |
| ... | | |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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Astronomers just spotted an extremely bright burst of radio waves emanating from within our own galaxy. The surprising observation could help us understand the mystery behind these enigmatic emissions, known as fast radio bursts. "All we hear is Radio ga ga"
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Umpteenth headline about the "mystery" of FRB, implying aliens.
I'd rather support a support a scammer by clicking their link; there's no difference.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I'm not saying it IS aliens, but... 
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It fakkin isn't.
Every radio-burst without explanation raises hopes about aliens. There's none; there's not even intelligent life in the entire universe.
Life elsewhere might exist; but evolution says "fat chance" to intelligence. And so, we been given none, as will the others.
The idea of "intelligent" life out there is rediculous and arrogant; life favours not intelligence, but endurance and adaptablity.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens is just latin for "Arrogant arrogant ape". Alien life is neither intelligent nor benevolent, IF it exists. We would shoot at it, regardless of its intentions; it is competition.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: but endurance and adaptablity.
What helps adaptability more than intelligence?
The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.
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Serious? 
Non-intelligence; we strive to keep things the same, and get upset and blame the Gods if they don't. Non intelligent species simply accept what is and try to do the best, while we whine.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Tell that the cockroaches...
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: There's none; there's not even intelligent life in the entire universe.
Life elsewhere might exist; but evolution says "fat chance" to intelligence. And so, we been given none, as will the others.
The idea of "intelligent" life out there is rediculous and arrogant; life favours not intelligence, but endurance and adaptablity.
Tongue in cheek aside, we know with 100% certainty that evolution can produce intelligent life (by which I mean life that can consciously consider abstract concepts). We are it. (As well as a small number of other Earthly animal species that demonstrate this ability to some extent).
Beyond that, we have wholly inadequate evidence on which to extrapolate as how life might or might not have evolved elsewhere. There is absolutely zero substantive reason to presume that either life or intelligent life could not or has not evolved elsewhere.
To state with such certainty, as you did, that intelligent could not have evolved elsewhere (when we know that it did evolve here and we have no reason to think that we are anything special) is simply non-sensical.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Homo Sapiens Sapiens is just latin for "Arrogant arrogant ape".
And yet it's you who is being arrogant. It is you is assuming that we are somehow special, that intelligent life could only have evolved here. In truth, we have no reason to think that we, this planet, or this solar system, are anything special.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Alien life is neither intelligent nor benevolent, IF it exists. We would shoot at it, regardless of its intentions; it is competition.
Good grief, let's just wait and find out, eh. Not all competition requires or ends in extermination, for a start, and that's even assuming that intelligent alien life is competitive!
That said, I'd prefer not to advertise our presence to the galaxy but that electromagnetic ship has long since sailed.
Since we know nothing about the possible nature of intelligent alien life (it could be oblivious to us, it could be benevolent, it could be malicious, we just don't know and we have nothing as yet on which to base substantive predictions), the most rational course of action seems to be to continue to advance our technology as quickly as possible.
The ability to have big flying things with guns by the time (if) we meet our first overt[1] intelligent aliens would be a useful fallback in case they're not friendly.
Footnote:-
1: Yeah, I recognise the currently un-disprovable possibilities that they are here now on a 'duckblind' style mission, or we're in a zoo, or they are just observing a 'prime directive' style radio silence in terms of any technology we could actually detect. Or we're bots in a simulation.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: markrlondon wrote: Tongue in cheek aside, we know with 100% certainty that evolution can produce intelligent life (by which I mean life that can consciously consider abstract concepts). We are it. (As well as a small number of other Earthly animal species that demonstrate this ability to some extent).
Theoretically that's an option; practical, you're an arrogant twat to suggest it, and damn no, we're not intelligent as a species.
How, in that case, do you choose to define "intelligent"?
Eddy Vluggen wrote: markrlondon wrote: There is absolutely zero substantive reason to presume that either life or intelligent life could not or has not evolved elsewhere.
There may be golden f***ing goats living on asparagus with three times our intellect; but there's ZERO PROOF in the entire visible universe. Being as arrogant as we are, some other intellect out there beyond us would be modest, and not send something recognizable?
Like an almighty God who makes commandments in clay, instead of diamond tablets? You serious?
You seem to be arbitrarily presuming that, if there is intelligent (however you define that word) life out there, then it must already have made contact with us.
There is no reason to presume this. The galaxy is big. You have no reason to presume that first contact should, for some arbitrary reason, already have occurred.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: It makes more sense than assuming aliens (or Gods). Ask Occam.
Occam seems to suggest that if there is intelligent life here on Earth (which we know there is) then, assuming we are nothing special (and we have no reason at present to assume otherwise), there is no reason for there not to be life elsewhere in similar conditions, including possibly intelligent life.
The Occam's Razor concept merely allows us to hypothesise, on the basis of likelihoods, what is most likely. Well, based upon what very little we know (i.e. the existence of this planet, life on it, and intelligent life on it), it would be irrational to claim with certainty, as you do, that life or intelligent life elsewhere is somehow impossible. It happened here; it could happen somewhere else too.
But again, I note that you deny that humans are intelligent. I must point out that we are having this conversation. According to the definition of "intelligent" that I used, i.e. the ability to consider abstract concepts, we could not be having this conversation without us being intelligent.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Being first doesn't make us special. Who knows how many species were wiped out before they could leave their planet? Life does not strive to colonize planets, nor does evolution reward rocket engines.
Ah, yet more statements based upon arbitrary assumptions.
Who says we are first? Isn't it yet more arrogant presumption on your part to assume that humans are first?
Indeed, who knows how many species were wiped out before they could leave their planet? But what of it? It is the survivors that matter. Perhaps you are simply presuming, yet again, that there must not be any survivors because you are simply not aware of them.
Life may or may not strive to colonise planets -- it depends on the preferences of the conscious and intelligent life that might or might not do such a thing. And it strikes me that evolution could very well reward rocket engines, if the development of rocket engines allows a species to escape its own world and the possible destruction of it. This demonstrates one of the ways in which intelligence is or can be a positive evolutionary trait (for the species that possesses it).
Eddy Vluggen wrote: "We don't know"? We know, aight? We knew ever since we met the Neanderthal; it doesn't matter what they think - we will eat them.
No, we don't know. Again, you are conflating presumption with certainty.
Also, as for neanderthals, they are in various parts us. We may or may not have eaten them (and they may or may not have eaten us), but we certainly had sex with them because their genes live on.
I am not saying that we going to have sex with aliens or that they are going to eat us or us them, only that a meeting between species is not some magically predetermined event. Who knows how it will work out. Being prepared for all possibilities is wise but you are just presuming, once again, that you know what the future will hold.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Don't confuse a passtime and entertainment or fiction with reality. I'll call on Deadpool if you pull the Picard-card.
I am pointing out how if we can imagine such a thing, we can do such a thing. And if we can imagine and do such a thing, then it would be naive and arrogant to just presume, as you keep on doing, that intelligent aliens could not or might not do similar.
Eddy Vluggen wrote: Anything beyond this, I'll charge your arse for basic education.
Once again, I was merely pointing out your errors of presumption. 
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Take it easy please, ok?
If you have had a bad day, count to ten and breath deeply.
If he is annoying you because of what he says, let it go and end the conversation right here, before it gets out of limits.
M.D.V.
If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.
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Nelek wrote: before it gets out of limits.
Way too late for that. 
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Pretty sure you're going on timeout for this one.
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Came close and doubt they will be lenient if it occurs again.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: The idea of "intelligent" life out there is rediculous and arrogant
So, in your opinion it is arrogant to claim there IS intelligent life besides ours. You don't see how it's arrogant to claim there IS NOT any? 
Why wouldn't there be other intelligences? You believe in evolution right? You're thinking this could only happen one time?
Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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ZurdoDev wrote: You don't see how it's arrogant to claim there IS NOT any?
I am not claiming, but pointing at the fact that there is no trace of it in the visible universe.
ZurdoDev wrote: You believe in evolution right? You're thinking this could only happen one time?
Evolution doesn't require "belief", nor does it move towards intelligence. Most life that evolved here didn't need it.
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Social Media - A platform that makes it easier for the crazies to find each other.
Everyone is born right handed. Only the strongest overcome it.
Fight for left-handed rights and hand equality.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: The idea of "intelligent" life out there is rediculous and arrogant
It's not ridiculous but it also might not exist. However, I would find it very surprising if it didn't exist. If the laws of physics allow the emergence of creatures like us I would not expect that to be a one-time event. It's at odds with the symmetry of the universe.
But the fact of the matter is we cannot prove it either way. So, to my mind, it's ridiculous and arrogant to dismiss the idea of intelligent life as ridiculous and arrogant.
Kevin
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The freedom in building atomic and molecular structures is so great that I would be extremely surprised if those umptillions attemps at putting things together to see what would work, and survive, ended up with exactly the same "Yeah, that's it!" in galaxies a million light years apart.
Take a look at e.g. the mechanism of DNA, which is essenital to most of what we call life: Nature must have spent quite a few attempts to hit on that mechanism. Either you believe that DNA is the only possible solution (and you end up like that MP who completely rejected to support a new exploration to the Galapagos based on the previous one: The description of the animals was an obvious hoax, because such animals simply do not exist), or you must accept that DNA happened to the one successful on earth. On other planets, completely different biological mechanisms may have developed.
At a higher level: Take a look a sexual reproduction, nature's way of all the time trying out new combinations to see which are best fit for survival. You may think it is simple, but take a look at the mechanisms for how the DNA of the parents is mixed in the offspring (it is far more complex than anything I learned in school!). Then go on to plants, e.g. cherries where the one tree cannot fertilize another of its own class. If I remember right, there are at least five classes, with strict rules for who can mix with who. Apples are maybe even more complex, and as main rule: The offspring does not resemble its ancestors. Another funny one is the jellyfish: Again, completely different from our simplistic "boy meets girl" model
These mechanisms are so complex that in their development, there are millions of other development paths that could have been chosen, and which might have been just as viable. The variation among land animals, plants and, say, jellyfish is so vast that there is no chance that we have explored all the possibilities on earth, but could have been what succeeded other places in the universe.
There may be "life" (according to some liberal definition) out there, even something that might be considered "intelligence". But maybe the life manifests not in solid form, but as gas or plasma structures. Maybe the intelligence operates as structures of various fields in gases. Or in immovable entities, similar to plants or rocks. Maybe the life survives only at a few million Kelvin. And so on.
Chances that self-replicating structures have formed somewhwere are reasonalby good. Chances that they have formed in exactly the same way as on earth - or even halfway close - are an epsilon so small that epsilon square is negative.
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The best proof that there is intelligent life in the Universe is that none of it has visited Earth.
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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But what else could it be? (besides instrument failure, natural phenomenon, misinterpretation of data, or any/all of the above?)
TTFN - Kent
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