The Insider News

GoodBye Linux : the next OS

27-Apr-20 20:20

If you think I goofed it, why did you asked me if "he" was being sarcastic? Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

M.D.V.

If something has a solution... Why do we have to worry about?. If it has no solution... For what reason do we have to worry about?
Help me to understand what I'm saying, and I'll explain it better to you
Rating helpful answers is nice, but saying thanks can be even nicer.

Kent Sharkey27-Apr-20 7:30

27-Apr-20 7:30

Sudhakar Dharmaraju[^]:
Our current server operating systems have not changed in 50 years and do not reflect modern day concerns for managing servers and cyber-security.

So...it's the Year of ex-Linux?

Nelek27-Apr-20 8:11

27-Apr-20 8:11

It is the Year of LoW (Linux on Windows) Dead | X|

M.D.V.

Dan Neely27-Apr-20 8:29

27-Apr-20 8:29

Quote:
Unikernels are provisioned directly on the hypervisor without a traditional system like Linux. So run 1000X more vms/per server.

I suppose if you were running an OS so bloated, or a microservice so insanely small that 99.9% of your server capacity was being consumed by the OS this might seem like a good idea; but you'd be fixing the wrong problem.

Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius

Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt

Richard Andrew x6427-Apr-20 10:58

Richard Andrew x64

27-Apr-20 10:58

I remember when the micro-kernel architecture was the "next big thing!"

The difficult we do right away...
...the impossible takes slightly longer.

Dan Neely28-Apr-20 3:20

28-Apr-20 3:20

And then someone tried implementing them and discovered they only worked in ivory tower circle Elephant | [mastadon]

markrlondon28-Apr-20 4:01

markrlondon

28-Apr-20 4:01

I can see the zealots trying to force everyone to move to them but I suspect they can make sense if you're living in a world of webby microservices and cloud lambdas, or whatever...

Dan Neely28-Apr-20 4:24

28-Apr-20 4:24

Yeah, but in most cases IMO if you're building something that way, you're doing it wrong. The few case studies I've seen with AWS Lambda are that unless the controller methods you're writing are really fat or your comparison VM servers load is approximately zero the minimum per call price Amazon charges will dwarf the cost of running the same app conventionally. And the complexity of a bazillion microservices vs a conventional monolithic web server is IMO only justifiable if you're building something that needs a crapton of CPU cores anyway; and just plain stupid for the typical website that can happily run one a sub-1 socket sized VM. Nothing I've ever worked on was that big; and excepting a single customer I've not involved with I don't think any projects my company's done are at that scale. (Could be wrong on the latter since I don't have details on all of them.)

Even there though, creating a custom hacked down OS stub for each feels like it's adding a bunch of new potential failure points while simultaneously kneecapping your ability to investigate any problems that do occur.

Since you're calling them zealots I assume your views are broadly similar to mine. $Shucks | :-\$

markrlondon28-Apr-20 4:52

markrlondon

28-Apr-20 4:52

Dan Neely wrote:
the minimum per call price Amazon charges will dwarf the cost of running the same app conventionally

I never cease to be amazed at the price people will pay for (perceived) convenience. The more you outsource, the better, they seem to think.

Dan Neely wrote:
And the complexity of a bazillion microservices vs a conventional monolithic web server is IMO only justifiable if you're building something that needs a crapton of CPU cores anyway; and just plain stupid for the typical website that can happily run one a sub-1 socket sized VM. Nothing I've ever worked on was that big; and excepting a single customer I've not involved with I don't think any projects my company's done are at that scale. (Could be wrong on the latter since I don't have details on all of them.)

Oh for sure, I agree with you. But clearly someone out there is using this stuff and wants this stuff. They may be living in a world of false economies but they seem to be running the asylum now. Wink | ;-)

Dan Neely wrote:
Since you're calling them zealots I assume your views are broadly similar to mine. $Shucks | :-\$

Yes, indeed. Wink | ;-)

I am already certain that this unikernel stuff is going to be big and it will most likely have a number of very forceful opinion formers behind it who will do their best to kill off or sideline everything that went before in favour of their shiny new cool-stuff-of-the-day. We're all doomed, I tell you. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

Dan Neely28-Apr-20 4:59

28-Apr-20 4:59

markrlondon wrote:
Dan Neely wrote:
the minimum per call price Amazon charges will dwarf the cost of running the same app conventionally

I never cease to be amazed at the price people will pay for (perceived) convenience. The more you outsource, the better, they seem to think.

Agreed. I'd like to be in a place where I had enough time to do an experiment where I ported an entire app to Lambda just to see if it would save us money. But that's probably too much to hope for. Sigh | :sigh:

Which isn't to say I've never used them. Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

They're the easiest way to schedule a task within AWS, but that usage falls massively under the free tier calls/month threshold, and the lambdas themselves were just a dozenish lines of node to execute an controller method on the main webserver. (Much simpler than setting all the AWS stuff up to deploy fat C# methods as lambdas.)

markrlondon28-Apr-20 4:04

markrlondon

28-Apr-20 4:04

Humour aside, this sort of thing does look quite cool (for certain web-centric use cases) but it's going to need a whole new generation of tools to maintain, diagnose and fix problems. Not everything is amenable to being fixed by a reboot or being sent back to the devs.

Yup, we do live in an age of bloated operating systems but, then again, the more they can do the more we use them for.

Cool new stuff to learn, new fortunes to be made...

Didn't mainframes have utilities that booted without an operating system?

Dan Neely28-Apr-20 5:03

Creating and Packaging a .NET Standard library

28-Apr-20 5:03

markrlondon wrote:
Humour aside, this sort of thing does look quite cool (for certain web-centric use cases) but it's going to need a whole new generation of tools to maintain, diagnose and fix problems. Not everything is amenable to being fixed by a reboot or being sent back to the devs.

Which is probably why Certain People (tm) are pushing it now. They're worried that their jobs with massively overinflated salaries will go away once Kubernetes actually gets tools to make it easy to use; just as they had to invent Kubernetes because Docker had gotten too easy for the peons they want to lord over to use. Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

Kent Sharkey26-Apr-20 9:45

Re: Creating and Packaging a .NET Standard library

26-Apr-20 9:45

Visual Studio blog[^]:
In this post we will cover how you can create a .NET Standard library and then share that with other developers via NuGet.

Do you mean you don't do it in the standard way?

Nelek26-Apr-20 19:15

Microsoft says you will use more of your brain with a Surface Neo

26-Apr-20 19:15

Kent Sharkey wrote:
Do you mean you don't do it in the standard way?

Don't forget the KSS rule... Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

M.D.V.

Kent Sharkey26-Apr-20 9:45

Re: Microsoft says you will use more of your brain with a Surface Neo

26-Apr-20 9:45

MS Power User[^]:
As we have seen from many Microsoft Research projects in the past, the company does extensive testing on their new technology, particularly when it comes to ergonomics, to help engineers create the optimum device and form factor.

"My birth cry will be the sound of every phone on this planet ringing in unison."

David O'Neil26-Apr-20 15:39

David O'Neil

26-Apr-20 15:39

Kent Sharkey wrote:
"My birth cry will be the sound of every phone on this planet ringing in unison."

To be followed by a push update, bricking them.

...

...

And then MS abandoning the form platform

The forgotten roots of science | C++ Programming | DWinLib

Re: Microsoft says you will use more of your brain with a Surface Neo

Kent Sharkey26-Apr-20 15:51

Re: Microsoft says you will use more of your brain with a Surface Neo

26-Apr-20 15:51

Pure artistry! Well done. Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

(And likely accurate.)

TTFN - Kent

Greg Utas26-Apr-20 15:55

Greg Utas

26-Apr-20 15:55

Two screamingly hilarious comments in a row. Well done, guys!

Robust Services Core | Software Techniques for Lemmings | Articles

Re: Microsoft says you will use more of your brain with a Surface Neo

Nelek26-Apr-20 19:14

Re: Microsoft says you will use more of your brain with a Surface Neo

26-Apr-20 19:14

I hope your update process works better than theirs Roll eyes | :rolleyes:

M.D.V.

MadMyche27-Apr-20 8:27

MadMyche

27-Apr-20 8:27

Does Scratching my head now equate to using more of my brain?

Director of Transmogrification Services
Shinobi of Query Language
Master of Yoda Conditional

Re: Microsoft says you will use more of your brain with a Surface Neo

Dan Neely28-Apr-20 3:21

An explanation of machine learning models even you could understand

28-Apr-20 3:21

Because their new UI will be so confusing we have to think about how everything is supposed to work all the time?

Kent Sharkey26-Apr-20 9:45

Re: An explanation of machine learning models even you could understand

26-Apr-20 9:45

The Next Web[^]:
If you are new to data science, this title is not intended to insult you. It is my second post on the theme of a popular interview question that goes something like: “explain [insert technical topic] to me as though I were a five-year-old.”

Well, not me. But probably you.

Nelek26-Apr-20 19:10