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dandy7225-Mar-20 7:14

dandy72

25-Mar-20 7:14

honey the codewitch wrote:
What I wouldn't give for a nice, stable, OS without all the garbage, that just worked, and was close looped dev enough that it all worked together consistently, and supported my hardware.

I'm a big fan of virtualization as, for me, it solves a lot of problems. I've got one beefy system, and the key to running things smoothly lies in dedicating separate VMs to separate tasks. If you load everything on one system (whether physical or virtual), sooner or later you risk getting into a situation where you have "too much to lose" if it goes down. So it helps to keep tasks segregated. If my VM host dies, I don't care, I know firsthand that moving VMs to another host, while not trivial, is absolutely feasible. I've gone through that experience years ago with one of the original Sandybridge motherboards that had SATA ports that would die randomly. I have nothing installed on the VM host OS, other than motherboard-specific drivers and that sort of thing. I practically live in RDP, remotely connecting to the individual VMs as needed.

Any hardware that doesn't work in a VM gets hooked up to a separate physical machine, which can be a lot cheaper. You could use that one for your MIDI hardware, and RDP into your VMs.

honey the codewitch25-Mar-20 7:37

25-Mar-20 7:37

Yeah, I mean, Ideally I'd have a separate machine for my digital audio workstation but the trouble is that

A) I develop audio stuff, and I need functioning MIDI and audio
B) I don't have the money or space to maintain two desktops.

Real programmers use butterflies

dandy7225-Mar-20 7:59

dandy72

25-Mar-20 7:59

Then it sounds to me like you might need to try different hypervisors - and settle on one that will let you tinker with your MIDI hardware within a VM, despite the hardware being abstracted.

Or use only your MIDI stuff on the host, and have it serve double duty in also running VMs. Not quite as segregated, but if you can only have a single system, that might be your best alternative.

Do you have a need for both the host and some software running in a VM accessing the MIDI interface? That's where things might break down - if you can't run that software outside of a VM, then you're placing more and more on the host.

Beyond this, I'm just talking out of my a$$ as I don't know your specific requirements.

honey the codewitch25-Mar-20 8:06

25-Mar-20 8:06

I hear you and have come to the same conclusion. Currently I can't run all my DAW gear in the host because its linux. the next host will be win10

Real programmers use butterflies

GenJerDan25-Mar-20 21:38

GenJerDan

25-Mar-20 21:38

The only problem I have with running everything on Win10 (Enterprise, because that's how I roll) is Sonar grabs exclusive control of the sound. Is that how ASIO works? No idea, don't care. A minor inconvenience.

We won't sit down.
We won't shut up.
We won't go quietly away.

YouTube, VidMe and My Mu[sic], Films and Windows Programs, etc. and FB

honey the codewitch25-Mar-20 21:49

25-Mar-20 21:49

Yes, that's how ASIO works. It's the price you pay for low latency. Some DAWs, like FL Studio (my DAW of choice) have the option of either ASIO or the DirectSound driver. With DirectSound it doesn't lock out your sound for other apps. It's not as low latency as ASIO technically, but with a modern computer it almost doesn't matter anymore. Bottom line is you can use DirectSound if your DAW will let you and you'll probably be fine.

Real programmers use butterflies

Stefan_Lang26-Mar-20 0:11

Stefan_Lang

26-Mar-20 0:11

Quote:
Registry bloat is the most likely culprit, but series of service packs and patches can't help.

Guess who's the biggest culprit regarding registry? Sniff | :^)

honey the codewitch wrote:
What I wouldn't give for a nice, stable, OS without all the garbage, that just worked, and was close looped dev enough that it all worked together consistently, and supported my hardware.

Windows 7 used to be that, until they started adding telemetry spyware via automatic (optional) updates, and then forcing it on every machine with cumulative updates. While the cumulative updates did help regarding the registry (it still grew, but not as fast as it used to), I hate MS for rolling optional telemetry updates into these. I got so tired of removing that crap over and over again that i finally decided to set my boxes to manual update only. Unfortunately, this only delayed the actual problem, because there was no way to only apply security updates without installing previous cumulative updates Mad | :mad:

GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)

SnWon26-Mar-20 2:09

SnWon

26-Mar-20 2:09

You need to use PCI pass-through, I think that would fix your midi problem, unless your hardware is not Linux compatible. The whole USB controller needs to be passed to the VM. I got a PCI USB card for that purpose in my rig.

I am running Xubuntu host with Xubuntu guest (safe web browsing) and Windows 10 guest (gaming only). The three are isolated from each other (AMD cpu, memory, most hardware, only the keyboard, mouse, and monitor are shared) by the kernel. The Win 10 VM has it's own AMD GPU / Samsung NVME for gaming.

My setup has been very stable, more so than most Win 10 installs. I think the key is being very picky on the hardware choices. I built this rig over a year ago.

honey the codewitch26-Mar-20 4:46

26-Mar-20 4:46

Geez. Solve a software problem with hardware. I already did that once with this install. meh.

I'll consider it, but i sure don't want an extra USB controller

Real programmers use butterflies

rtischer827726-Mar-20 2:31

rtischer8277

26-Mar-20 2:31

Here's a different take on how to solve the untrustworthy-OS problem. Simply forget about the OS. Assume that it's buggy, inconvenient, always changing, insecure, and steals your private data. That said, write a software framework that ensures that not only are security and privacy protected, but also ownership of each and any data component you deem as being your virtual property. Put this framework code in all or any app you want (of course I am ignoring for discussions sake all the problems of how you do this). That way, you have the same app interfaces you are used to and you have never given your data away to clouds or OSes. You will always own your virtual stuff even though TCP/IP can take them anywhere.

honey the codewitch26-Mar-20 4:44

26-Mar-20 4:44

small comfort when it nukes my GRUB install and i can't boot anymore, but i hear you

Real programmers use butterflies

Clumpco26-Mar-20 2:28

Clumpco

26-Mar-20 2:28

I'm going to have to join the "Windows 10 ain't all that bad" brigade despite my inherent dislike for it.
Some thoughts:
I look after quite a few family & friends computers (at least 20 at a rough count), all Win 10 now except for 1 Mac. The only ones where Win 10 has borked, slowed down etc., have been the laptops with mechanical drives. Replacing with an SSD seems to have cured all of them.
My 3 home PCs are all home built with decent hardware (Asus, Crucial, Samsung/Intel SSD, WD etc.) - none of them have ever gone wrong (from an OS point of view); over the last 5 years I have had 1 PSU burn out (it had previously been used for a bitcoin hashing rig, so no surprise there) and 1 4TB SATA disk fail (part of a RAID 6 array) - never have I lost any data nor had a computer fail to start.
I also have linux running on 7 Raspberry Pis and in a remote VM that runs my web site. I think that they have all fallen over at some point, usually during an update. The VM one failed miserably doing that and I had to wipe it and restart from scratch. Even worse VMWare ESXi on the remote server later fell over too during an update (from 5 to 6 IIRC) - that was fun.
Finally, as for trying to use VMs for anything other than simple workstation tasks is a hiding to nowt (as they say up North), all the VM editors maintain that you can get seamless direct access to hardware.. it's a lie! You might be lucky and get USB3 working for slightly faster data transfers than USB2 but forget about DACs, video capture etc. Similarly my DVB-S2 card has remained steadfastly unrecognised by 33 different products. I also have some audio software that won't run on Win10 - I ended up putting it on an old Win 7 laptop rather than struggling with a VM.

OK, so where does that get us? Grin a bear it with Win10, strip out all the excess crud and run it on good hardware.
Sorry for going on so much.

sasadler26-Mar-20 9:06

sasadler

26-Mar-20 9:06

Have you looked at FreeBSD? It's much more 'designed' than Linux. When Windows 10 came out I decided that I needed to look for some alternatives. I played with FreeBSD for about a year and really liked it. The problem is that they're behind Linux when it comes to newer hardware.

I currently dual boot Windows 10 and Devuan Linux but have been looking at replacing Linux with FreeBSD. The main reason I didn't use FreeBSD to start was the hassle of trying to get dual boot to work properly. Was never able to get it to work well back then. Hopefully, things are a little easier these days.

honey the codewitch26-Mar-20 9:37

26-Mar-20 9:37

Oooh, I didn't consider FreeBSD. Not sure why I didn't think of it myself. I'll strongly consider it.

The main problem i have with these (linux, freebsd) is they don't have the software i use

Real programmers use butterflies

sasadler26-Mar-20 10:29

sasadler

26-Mar-20 10:29

For me, 85%-90% of the software I use is available under Linux, Windows 10 and FreeBSD (jEdit, Firefox, Thunderbird, Libre Office, g++, etc). It's really only Games and photo editing (Affinity Photo) that keep Windows 10 on my machine.

Welcome to Coronaland

honey the codewitch25-Mar-20 4:33

25-Mar-20 4:33

We'll trap you in your homes which we fill with brainwashing broadcasts in order to keep you outraged (to keep you engaged) but otherwise fearful and complacent (to keep you useful).

Enjoy! Smile | :)

Real programmers use butterflies

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Greg Utas25-Mar-20 4:39

Greg Utas

25-Mar-20 4:39

People were already fleeing the propaganda in droves, so I'm not even sure that having a captive audience will help.

honey the codewitch25-Mar-20 5:32

25-Mar-20 5:32

I don't think so either but it isn't for lack of trying. James Woods (who I normally avoid but had a point this time) posted an image on twitter (i can't find it now) of a reporter in a hazmat suit being filmed by their cameraman - who was in plainclothes. They sure made sure they suited up for the camera though. It's ridiculous. BE AFRAID. ANYTHING AS LONG AS YOU PAY ATTENTION TO ME. They'll cause lasting social damage they'll never have to answer for. All because the industry is dying. It's sad.

Real programmers use butterflies

Chris Maunder25-Mar-20 4:56

Chris Maunder

25-Mar-20 4:56

Media companies have gained a 15% boost in pageviews due to this media frenzy.

However: regardless of the hype, the misinformation, the scare mongering and everything else that's going on, there is a real, on-the-ground issue with our hospital systems being overloaded. I have friends and family working in hospitals and they're very, very stressed and overworked already (and that 'overwork' is at this point often dealing with freaked out, uncooperative and sometimes angry patients. Crazy.)

The % of cases that require treatment may turn out to be really, really low. The absolute numbers, though, are proving to be enough that some hospitals, already over capacity, are now simply unable to cope.

That's what we need to be careful with. If I get hit by a car, or my Dad has a heart attack, or a new baby is in trouble, we need the hospitals to still be able to care for them.

Once we have herd immunity this will be (it seems) a total non-issue.

But yeah: a little less crazy and a little more "shrug OK, let's give it a few weeks then move on" would be much appreciated out there. I wonder, though, how you actually get a calm sensible message to a generation brought up on instant gratification and screamy reality TV. If it's not more shocking than the episode that's just aired then who will pay attention? If the headline is not as alarming as the news item next to it who will click it?

I wish people were more logical. Unfortunately that would make them far less interesting.

cheers
Chris Maunder

OriginalGriff25-Mar-20 5:03

OriginalGriff

25-Mar-20 5:03

Well said! Thumbs Up | :thumbsup:

"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!

honey the codewitch25-Mar-20 5:13

25-Mar-20 5:13

Real programmers use butterflies

theoldfool25-Mar-20 5:25

theoldfool

25-Mar-20 5:25

If you can keep your head while those about you are losing theirs, perhaps you don't understand the situation.

Maximilien25-Mar-20 5:48

Maximilien

25-Mar-20 5:48

I just hate it when someone sane say something reasonable.

Rose | [Rose]

keep at it.

Social distance the crap out of covid-19.
Science the sh*t out of covid-19.

I'd rather be phishing!

kalberts25-Mar-20 6:17

kalberts

25-Mar-20 6:17

Chris Maunder wrote:
Once we have herd immunity this will be (it seems) a total non-issue.

So we should just make sure that the virus is spread to everybody as soon as possible, and those who survive will be immune, right?

I wonder how many lives that would cost in total.