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But the programmers.
I started out in VB.Net and had to work in applications that were ported directly from VB6.
Yes, they were horrible, but after that we learned from made mistakes and created some nice VB.Net applications.
After that I got to work in a C# project that was probably even worse than the VB6 port application I had been working on.
The JavaScript in that C# application was so bad that it couldn't be minified and uglified because everything was global and it was already ugly.
And then I've seen some pretty decent JavaScript as well.
The lesson to be learned is that it's not the language that's the problem, it's the people that do not understand it.
That said, CSS is a real stinker.
JavaScript doesn't have a list type and to remove an element from an array you have to get the index of the element, then split the array into two on that index, skip an index and paste them back together again... WTF!?
But once you understand the limitation in JavaScript you can work with it and you can even create your own shortcut function for reuse. It will behave consistently.
CSS has a width property, but it doesn't set the width until certain conditions are met.
Setting width does not set width? WTF!?
What's worse, if you do want to meet the conditions it'll probably mess up your entire page (because now suddenly you have to set all the widths). WTF!?
Aligning stuff is the worst, you probably need to set four or five (sometimes unrelated) properties to have something align at all. WTF!?
Looking at the famous WTFs per minute CSS is a real winner for me.
A preprocessor like LESS or SCSS makes it a bit better, but not much.
Unfortunately, there is no alternative to style your web pages (that I know of) 
So yeah, I wouldn't refuse to work in CSS or advice against it because I have no alternative.
I'd rather not work in a lot of languages, like Java or PHP, but that's because I'm not familiar with them, not because I think they're bad languages (well, I know they aren't as beautiful and elegant as .NET, but it can probably do all the same things) 
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Hi Sander,
I absolutely agree to your statement! 
Regarding to CSS and styling web pages...
There would be the possibility to style a page also with pure JavaScript. Most things are ported from or to CSS/JavaScript and
therefore they are compatible.
But the result would be - surprise, surprise, CSS again. 
I know some colleagues who design as many as possible with JS because they like it more than the syntax of CSS.
In my opinion this is only more work since you have to know the basics of CSS and defining them with JS.
So I use CSS directly for styling... 
Best wishes
Carsten
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How do you style your page with JS?
Is that like a preprocessor I haven't heard of yet?
I know you can set styles and classes using JS, but that's really not how styling should be done 
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Yeah, that's what I mean.
Set width, height, color, align, etc. via JS.
I know a lot of colleagues who do it this way.
But it's ugly in my opinion.
You must know or get the id or name of the target to edit the behavior.
This is too much effort. And then it is case sensitive and you are wondering why it does not work until
you find the typo...
I.e.
var x = document.getElementsByTagName("myStyle");
or
document.getElementById("myTable").style.color = "blue";
No, Pals! Not for me.
I do it the common way...
These are all compatible objects I know which can be designed via JS.
HTML DOM Style object[^]
Okay, correctly said it's HTML DOM, but defined with JS.
As I wrote, the result is pure CSS. So why doing it this way???
Best wishes
Carsten
BTW: Where do you come from?
I am from Germany, near Karlsruhe. Ever heard of that?
modified 8-Jun-18 8:55am.
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Ex-contractor code wh**e, that's me
I even had a contract "upgrading" VB3 to VB6 ... less than 5 years ago. If the money is good ...
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Because you accept everything, your next project will be in this[^] language. Make sure you comment your code in Esperanto, for extra readability 
Next, we have a project waiting in LOLCODE and Shakespeare Programming Language[^].
HAI 1.2
CAN HAS STDIO?
VISIBLE "HAI WORLD!"
KTHXBYE
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Probably easier than going from VB6 to the most recent VB.Net. Even worse would probably by having to work with straight ASP.
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Ah I see myself as a tart, almost anything for money, but there is a line I will not cross. And yes I have rejected contracts based on language requirements.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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.....that someone will be asked to program in a language other than the one in which he has experience is laughable.
Do you think a FORTRAN programmer will be asked to code in C++?
No way!
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Depending on the job, a FORTRAN programmer can be asked to code in C++. A lot of the software houses here in Pakistan would fulfill the clients requirements by coding in the language that the client has set as a standard. Example, the client I give support to, only allows .NET applications coded in either VB.NET or C# on their server. Another client that our software house gives support to only allows applications written in Java/JSP.
So yes, if my contract with the current client ends and I am given the new client to support, I would have to give support for the applications written in Java/JSP, even though I have experience in .NET .
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Your clients are enlightened persons.
They realize that programming is an activity that consists of expressing in a procedural or object-oriented manner a method to solve a problem. Once a person has learnt one language using either the procedural or object-oriented paradigm, most other languages using those paradigms are similar.
But I can assure you that if a COBOL or FORTRAN programmer were to apply in the US for a position as a C programmer -- which is entirely procedural -- he would not get the job.
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At a company who has no the microsoft there will be to him asked not to powershell but bash or not c# because his using the python etc. its very much the corporate resistence go against the common uses. In the future programs have been written in plan writing as english and other languages. imagine translating source codeto google translate and recompile as QC
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Vivic wrote: that someone will be asked to program in a language other than the one in which he has experience is laughable
Rubbish, a manager gets a flea in his ear about Python and the next thing we knew we had to drop 8 years of Silverlight/WPF and start working with Python. As there is not a LOB framework in Python I have managed to dodge that one.
My very first contract back in the early 90's, while working on an MS Access application (VBA) I was tasked to fix a TSQL issue, so yes developers are asked to work in languages they are not proficient in - regularly.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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I should have phrased my statement a bit more carefully: No programmer will be hired to work with a language he is not familiar with.
An existing staff member may usually be asked to work with a scripting language for a minor project or, in the case of a particularly valuable employee, retained while he is trained in a different language; but no IT Manager will hire a COBOL programmer to work on a major project which uses C.
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Vivic wrote: No programmer will be hired to work with a language he is not familiar with.
True and no programmer developer should apply for a position where they do not know the language.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity
RAH
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and Apex definitely qualify for something I would never personally touch.
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I was at a company doing C#, SQL,etc...normal stuff. Then our Salesforce guy quit... my boss asked if I could tackle some of the salesforce stuff. I said I'll give it a try... until then I never even logged into salesforce in my life. Apex wasn't that bad because it was code (basically Java). All the other crap in Salesforce made me want to bang my head off the desk. I still put it on my resume hoping that no one wants me to do that but was still a skill that I learned
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It is amazing that we have so many SQL languages, and these languages are so old. They have strange syntax and do not support the requirements of object oriented languages.
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Especially Microsoft Sql Server is notorious for deviating from the SQL standard !
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SQL is not a programming language.
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Neither is VB, but there are some who stubbornly adhere to that claim...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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When you pry the gun from my cold dead hands, be careful - the barrel will be very hot. - JSOP, 2013
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They are programming languages, just that they do not qualify as object oriented programming languages. They do program the computer to do something. I consider them very crude however.
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...or any part of it. If I ever see another line of PHP it will be too soon! 
"Go forth into the source" - Neal Morse
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I feel ya.. I took a side job doing Angular and pretty much committed myself before I realized all the backend was PHP. It's Larevel PHP Framework so it is somewhat not as terrible as coding straight PHP but it still sucks. But the the money they are paying me for 3 days a week there is keeping doing it. Code is code is code is code. I wouldn't turn down a job/contract if the price is right no matter what language. I'll do GW-BASIC, COBOL, or Fortran if it's good enough money
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If a sloppy, unstructured, loosely-typed, heap of garbage counts as a language, then there is definitely one which I'd run a long, long way to avoid.
98.4% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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