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Solution looking for a problem cwkingjr11-Jul-03 15:57 cwkingjr 11-Jul-03 15:57  I just had to have a WinCE PDA...they are soooo cool and I could develop some cool apps for it. It is cool, right there on the shelf behind me!! Chuck King PalmOS rules Christian Graus9-Jul-03 14:53 Christian Graus 9-Jul-03 14:53  Having just finished writing a Palm app I have to say that Palm rocks. Sure, it would be easier to write for Windows lite, but I honestly have to say that I like Palm better. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: PalmOS rules Roger Wright9-Jul-03 15:27 Roger Wright 9-Jul-03 15:27  What do you like about it, Christian? I've got the SDK around here somewhere, but I haven't thought of a single app I need except one that would require additional hardware I can't afford. What have you created, and why do you enjoy using the O/S? "The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb; but the Lamb will not get much sleep..." Lazarus Long Re: PalmOS rules Christian Graus9-Jul-03 15:31 Christian Graus 9-Jul-03 15:31  We created a system that runs an indexed database on the Palm which is updated via a conduit that connects to a central server. I liked the fact that it doesn't pretend to be a PC, the API is in C and things are tight, which means you write tight code. Palms do not have processors as fast as a Pocket PC, but they run just as fast, and are cheaper. They also are smaller and generally nicer to use IMO. The whole conduit mechanism is really nice, all my users have to do is press a button on the cradle. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: PalmOS rules Uwe Keim11-Jul-03 7:13 Uwe Keim 11-Jul-03 7:13  And I thought it must be written "rulez". Hmmmmm -- - Free Windows-based CMS: www.zeta-software.de/enu/producer/freeware/download.html - See me: www.magerquark.de Do we need this much power? fantastic_mr_fox9-Jul-03 7:20 fantastic_mr_fox 9-Jul-03 7:20  Ok, so it makes it an easier job for us developers to migrate to progamming for WinCE rather than learn PalmOS or Symbian. So there it has my vote, but is it really worth it? Question 1: Do we really need this much processing power on a hand-held, or are we just making excuses and finding things we can do to use it up? Ie, MP3's/video (cute, but I have an MP3 player and a digital camera for that). Question 2: Do you get frustrated with the short battery life on the new WinCE devices (down to about 18hrs on the latest toshiba's - compared to a couple of weeks for the palms). WinCE = a more MHz = less battery life. Question 3: Will WinCE go like XP, demanding more and more and more memory/MHz (pushing the price of devices up), when the whole lot could be written much intelligently using less resources, on a non-bloatted OS, and still work as fast (at a fraction of the cost)? ..that should get the ball rolling to find some answers... =) Re: Do we need this much power? Matt Newman9-Jul-03 8:07 Matt Newman 9-Jul-03 8:07  philip_love wrote: Do we need this much power? No, but do we really need 3 Ghz processors either? Matt Newman Sonork: 100:11179 "Two things have come out of Berkley, Unix and Acid, we do not belive this to be a coincidence" Linux sucks twice as fast and 10 times more reliably, and since you have the source, it's your fault. -Ca1v1n Post best viewed with lynx Re: Do we need this much power? Matt Newman10-Jul-03 6:26 Matt Newman 10-Jul-03 6:26  I somehow posted that annoymously Matt Newman Sonork: 100:11179 "Two things have come out of Berkley, Unix and Acid, we do not belive this to be a coincidence" Linux sucks twice as fast and 10 times more reliably, and since you have the source, it's your fault. -Ca1v1n Post best viewed with lynx Re: Do we need this much power? converdb9-Jul-03 10:24 converdb 9-Jul-03 10:24  Of course we need more and more speed and power, do you want to crash Intel/Microsoft stocks on wall street?? ;P It is another wintel platform, so it needs to be reinvented each year to sell and sell the same over and over again... I have done applications for many years on many different kind of handhelds, cpm, ms-dos, custom os's and now wince based devices, and in the beggining we have the people happy with just one file with the customers (ordered just by one field and dicotomic searchs...) and another file as maximum, now that people can't leave without gprs communications, gps positioning, web services on the handheld and db's based on sql ce server. Are the applications more complex?, technically maybe, but not in prestations. In the old applications, I can't communicate at 115000 bps through serial port cause I hooked the interruptions and maybe write some assembler to control it, now it we want this prestations, we have to put 3 developers to investate the new microsoft bullshit and writing device drivers for the win32 platform. Don't be confuse, I love window platforms programming model, but I am not very moved by the current technology... Greetings... Just three words: void main(void) Re: Do we need this much power? Roger Wright9-Jul-03 15:30 Roger Wright 9-Jul-03 15:30  Quite a lot of writers I've read recently predict that the handheld market is a stopgap that will shortly be completely replaced by the do-everything cell phove model. PDAs and their ilk do too little, and require too much to be of much long-term value, but they fill a niche that cell phones can't quite yet. It hardly seems worth the effort to learn WinCE... "The Lion shall lie down with the Lamb; but the Lamb will not get much sleep..." Lazarus Long Re: Do we need this much power? Christian Graus9-Jul-03 15:32 Christian Graus 9-Jul-03 15:32  I agree - that is one more reason the Palm Tungsten rocks, it's also a phone. Why carry more than one device ? It just becomes a pain. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: Do we need this much power? Anders Molin11-Jul-03 14:15 Anders Molin 11-Jul-03 14:15  Christian Graus wrote: Why carry more than one device ? It just becomes a pain. I dont want a phone in my PDA. My phone is small and is ALWAYS in my pocket. I carry my PDA when needed. - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" Re: Do we need this much power? Christian Graus11-Jul-03 14:45 Christian Graus 11-Jul-03 14:45  Is your PDA a big, ugly WinCE device, or a Palm, which is nice and comfortable to carry around in your pocket ? Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: Do we need this much power? eliakaris11-Jul-03 20:15 eliakaris 11-Jul-03 20:15  Do we not know of the HP iPaq 1100 series?? This is the perfect small pda. i mean, I love power, but it is just 200 mhz, really really small (rivals all palms) and looks great. sorry palm, but windows ce .net is to stay. I mean come one. Microsoft is doing a really good job helping us developers. They don't have to. Sure writing in C is great and all, but not everyone knows C. And do tell you the truth, not all schools teach it... With microsoft and Windows CE, it allows for different types of developers, be it, VB, C++ MFC, .net... the list goes on and on. In palm, you know C, or you don't develop. Now i dont want to seem like I love microsoft. they have plenty of problems they need to fix. But I dont forget all they have done for me, and developers around the world. Re: Do we need this much power? Christian Graus11-Jul-03 23:55 Christian Graus 11-Jul-03 23:55  eliakaris wrote: it is just 200 mhz eliakaris wrote: windows ce .net is to stay .NET on 200 MHz ? Man, I feel sorry for you. eliakaris wrote: rivals all palms Your statement implicitly accepts that it's an achievement to be *as good* as Palm, and you're not claiming more than that. eliakaris wrote: Sure writing in C is great and all, but not everyone knows C I learned C by writing Palm apps. Anyone who can't is too stupid to be writing software to begin with. Sure, they may manage to churn out something that works in VB, but thier ignorance will show in other ways, and the program will suffer. eliakaris wrote: And do tell you the truth, not all schools teach it... Anyone who needs a school to teach them a language should also give up and become a plumber. eliakaris wrote: With microsoft and Windows CE, it allows for different types of developers, be it, VB, C++ MFC, .net... the list goes on and on. It's good to know your stuff before spouting off. 1. C++ is totally supported for Palm 2. There exist MFC type frameworks for Palm 3. You can write VB for Palm 4. You can get other, similar tools for stupid people on Palm 5. .NET on a mobile device ? Why ? eliakaris wrote: But I dont forget all they have done for me, and developers around the world. They've done jack for you. They do plenty for their own monopoly, you're just smart enough to take advantage of that. But Windows was not written for mobile devices and that's another good reason that Palm does it better. And philosophically, I'd prefer the Microsoft monopoly not extend to mobile/embedded devices unless they earn it. They have so far failed to do so, except in the case of 'developers' who are really one language wonders ( usually VB ) and are too scared to try anything new. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: Do we need this much power? eliakaris12-Jul-03 9:39 eliakaris 12-Jul-03 9:39  You do bring up a ton of good points. But I must stress anohter important part of the Windows CE OS. The windows CE Os is making palm better! Palm never had any competition before microsoft came in with PocketPC 2000 way back in the day. Palm first said that PocketPC was just way to expensive and didnt feel they needed to make a better operating system. But with time, windows ce devices have become a lot cheaper, and still faster. This made palm worry, and come out with palm os 5.0, a much needed improvement over the other palm operating systems. So you should thank microsoft for that because for a good 6 years, palms monopoly had hurt the palm pilot industry. Now with microsoft and palm competing, we are getting some great products out there, palm os 5.0 being one of them. Elia Re: Do we need this much power? Christian Graus12-Jul-03 11:47 Christian Graus 12-Jul-03 11:47  Yes, you are right. The new Palm range is another indication that Palm users are benefitting from the competition. I wonder what our OS would look like if there was competition in the desktop market ? Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: Do we need this much power? Anders Molin12-Jul-03 0:32 Anders Molin 12-Jul-03 0:32  LOL, e Palm is also way too big to carry in my pocket all the time. I know Palm, I have had one, but after I got my first CE I have never been looking back - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" Re: Do we need this much power? Christian Graus12-Jul-03 0:44 Christian Graus 12-Jul-03 0:44  You are saying the WinCE device is smaller ? Palm devices are designed to be carryable, and WinCE I have seen are always bigger. I carry a Palm Tungsten, no worries. You must have tiny pockets. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: Do we need this much power? Anders Molin12-Jul-03 0:49 Anders Molin 12-Jul-03 0:49  I'm not saying that a CE device is smaller, I'm saying that a Palm is too big to carry in my pocket all the time as I do with my phone. - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" Re: Do we need this much power? Christian Graus12-Jul-03 0:52 Christian Graus 12-Jul-03 0:52  You must wear jeans and t-shirt then, yes ? A Palm, unlike a WinCE device, fits nicely in a suit or shirt pocket, but not in jeans. Christian NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIG IS THE WORD SIZE ,THE DATA MUCT BE TRANSPORTED INTO THE CPU. - Vinod Sharma Anonymous wrote: OK. I read a c++ book. Or...a bit of it anyway. I'm sick of that evil looking console window. I think you are a good candidate for Visual Basic. - Nemanja Trifunovic Re: Do we need this much power? Anders Molin12-Jul-03 0:57 Anders Molin 12-Jul-03 0:57  Christian Graus wrote: A Palm, unlike a WinCE device, fits nicely in a suit or shirt pocket, but not in jeans. I never wear shirts, just hate them And a Palm is too big to be in a pocket in my pants (not Jeans, but I dont know what they are called in english, the same pants as with a suit) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" Re: Do we need this much power? wrenhal13-Jul-03 4:25 wrenhal 13-Jul-03 4:25  Have you seen the new Handspring Treo 600(I think that's the number)? It is VERY small and still has all the functionality of the Palm and a phone all in one. Including looking like it would fit in pockets really well. Re: Do we need this much power? Anders Molin11-Jul-03 14:17 Anders Molin 11-Jul-03 14:17  philip_love wrote: Do you get frustrated with the short battery life on the new WinCE devices (down to about 18hrs on the latest toshiba's - compared to a couple of weeks for the palms). WinCE = a more MHz = less battery life. 18 hours for a PocketPC, nice 2 weeks for a Palm, yea, but it's only for normal use, which is under one hour a day. It's not like you can have your Palm turned on for 2 weeks - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!" Definition of a handheld Michael Dunn7-Jul-03 18:00 Michael Dunn 7-Jul-03 18:00  The most expensive way to play Solitaire I own two handhelds actually. An HP CE device (from back when they had keyboards), and a Palm Vx. I bought the CE and I actually did use it for a few months when I was on a project with lots of responsibilities. But since that project ended, I barely used it. It's now sitting in a drawer next to the batteries. I won the Palm in a contest and have never used it, aside from playing Sub Hunt on a train trip to San Jose. The screen is now busted (no idea how, it certainly didn't wear out ) and doesn't register taps in the right location, so it's unusable. I'm just not important enough to need to carry an organizer with me, nor do I have so many contacts that I need a mobile address book. --Mike-- "I'm working really, really fast at the moment, so a 3 minute outage becomes, due to time dilation, a 5 minute outage." -- Chris Maunder, relativistic system administrator Ericahist | Homepage | RightClick-Encrypt | 1ClickPicGrabber

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