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I rather suspect that the issue isn't so much that interfaces are bad it's that there's discontent that multiple-inheritance isn't present. The interface-as-a-contract argument is a powerful one and it's an incredibly useful construct, especially for things like IoC. The diamond inheritance issue, is a real issue but it could have been tackled in any number of ways. Saying that, I don't use inheritance that often anymore - I tend to find that I use composition a lot more, which somewhat negates the need for inheritance chains.
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What would be interesting (which, BTW, I've suggested to the C# folks -- who rejected the notion outright) is what I would call "interface delegation". You could have an interface on a class that was implemented by a data member of that class. A la:
class Foo : iObservable implementedby myObservable
{
ObservableImpl myObservable;
}
or some such (maybe an attribute on the data member).
#SupportHeForShe If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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That's exactly how Self managed delegation. No inheritance needed at all (or classes).
To paraphrase in more C-like syntax...
Comparable = { ... }
Cloneable = { ... }
myObj = {
parent compare = Comparable;
parent clone = Cloneable;
}
Then any messages sent to myObj not handled directly are passed to Comparable and Cloneable.
Much better example of prototype-based inheritance than JavaScript, which I think turned many people off the idea by implementing it so badly.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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Interesting, but it seems like the parent specifier denotes a sort of "inheritance", so that contradicts your "No inheritance needed". Ah, you do mention this is a kind of prototype inheritance.
Very interesting.
#SupportHeForShe If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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Indeed, I wish Self had had more adoption - and a Windows implementation would be nice too.
The most influential language no one has ever heard of. It was a Smalltalk-like language, with prototype-based inheritance (delegation), and a VM that was the forerunner of techniques used in just about every modern language VM, but seems to have passed under the radar of almost everyone.
I suspect the Smalltalk-like syntax was just too alien for most people.
The following video gives some idea just how far ahead of the curve it was: Self Video[^]
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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Interesting. Thanks. Though most of the video wasn't really about Self itself, but what was happening around Self. The first half could be skipped without any loss.
#SupportHeForShe If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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I've found http://www.selflanguage.org/[^] which is the home page for the Self language. Which points to the github repository. Looks like the last activity was about 2 years ago.
I may have found something to do in my vast amounts of "spare time".
#SupportHeForShe If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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sigh
If he's so bothered by the semantic difference between interface and class, then why doesn't he advocate for a number type instead of int and float?
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Maybe because they have semantic differences.
For a better approach, look at type classes in Haskell, where there is indeed a Num type, as well as an Integer type and a Real type (with implementations as both Float and Fraction).
Note, however, that a type class can include default implementations of functions, and its power begins to shine.
Great straw man argument though.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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Don't take my post the wrong way. I actually think it's silly that C#/Java doesn't have real multiple inheritance. But even if they did add that to those languages, I think Interfaces should remain, as they have significant semantic meaning over "abstract class" which seems to be Uncle Bob's argument: interfaces and abstract classes are the same thing, so why have interfaces?
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Vark111 wrote: I think Interfaces should remain, as they have significant semantic meaning over "abstract class"
Agreed.
Vark111 wrote: Uncle Bob's argument
Is really about the lack of multiple inheritance.
#SupportHeForShe If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
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I don't see a significant difference in the presence of multiple inheritance.
I see a use for interfaces between components, obviously, but why can't that interface:
- Be an abstract class, possibly distinguished by naming convention.
- Even provide default methods (as LINQ works around using Extension Methods).
Haskell's Type Classes manage the second form very well. Eiffel manages both.
Effectively, as a language feature, interfaces only offer limitations, not features.
As a design feature, they are essential.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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I don't agree that interfaces are harmful. What I get from his "essay" is that not being able to have multiple base classes is what is harmful. I agree, however, that an abstract base class with only non-implemented abstract functions is equivalent to an interface. Which means interfaces are superfluous.
#SupportHeForShe If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader.-John Q. Adams
You must accept 1 of 2 basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe or we are not alone. Either way, the implications are staggering!-Wernher von Braun
Only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.-Albert Einstein
modified 23-Jun-15 16:27pm.
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Absolutely agree, it would be silly to design software without the idea of an interface between components, but in the presence of multiple inheritance, they can just be a naming convention.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/22/8826117/microsoft-forced-to-explain-who-really-gets-windows-10-for-free[^]
Microsoft confused everyone about its free upgrade plans for Windows 10 last week. While it looked like everyone who tested Windows 10 will get a free copy, the reality is slightly more complex. In an attempt to address some of the confusion Microsoft has created, the software giant has updated its blog post to clarify who gets a free copy of Windows 10. Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 users will obviously get a copy of Windows 10 on July 29th as a free upgrade, but Windows 10 preview users will also get a free upgrade.
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A possible threat to the API has emerged in the form of the court case Oracle America, Inc. v. Google, Inc. centered on Oracle’s claim that their Java APIs are copyrightable. "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."
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Any headline that contains the words "court case" can lead to a counter-intuitive outcome.
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Hope for the best - end of Java...
Skipper: We'll fix it.
Alex: Fix it? How you gonna fix this?
Skipper: Grit, spit and a whole lotta duct tape.
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Slow news day? Nothing in that article I hadn't read a year+ ago...
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason?
Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius
Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies.
-- Sarah Hoyt
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LOpht’s warnings about the Internet drew notice but little action. “If you’re looking for computer security, then the Internet is not the place to be.”
Entirely worth it for the image at the top of the article, IMO
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Kent Sharkey wrote: Entirely worth it for the image at the top of the article, IMO
Absolutely. The only thing that's missing is a Prophet 5 sitting on the desk.
Marc
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Microsoft has been showcasing their investment in their new augmented reality headset, HoloLens, the Windows team has also been working behind the scenes to support virtual reality. As requested by nobody
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May not have been requested, but personally I think it is a damn fine idea.
If DirectX is an infrastructure for games, the next generation cannot afford to ignore these developments, otherwise we face a fragmented development platform, with games developers having to put effort into supporting Occulus VR, Valve VR, Google Cardboard (just kidding), etc. Much better to have these things recognised as "VR Devices" and expost their functionality through common APIs. Seems to work well for the rest of the hardware on Windows.
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
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What if you could deploy resources you already have at your disposal to improve quality, get projects done earlier – with fewer errors and with less budget impact – by simply implementing a software quality control method that most likely already exists in other parts of your organization? "Many hands make light work."
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