|
No. But maybe that's because I'm a lousy complier. 
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
|
|
|
|
|
The main design rule of Metro is there is no chrome.
So the UI could be a game console such as Xbox, or it can be a phone such as the new windows phone 8.1 (which was Silverlight before).
With enough experience it could probably mock the desktop.
There is nothing to the UI of Metro so it can be anything that exists and not have a overhead presence to it.
|
|
|
|
|
DOS: Ahh, the good old days... I spent so much time messing around in QBasic and TurboC... And playing Scorched Earth.
Windows 3.11: So insecure that when they put a computer lab in my high school, I hacked it in five minutes so I could play Minesweeper (Teaches them to lock out the games!)
Windows 95: Had to set up a software firewall just so the script kiddies on IRC couldn't drop an ICMP on 139 to BSOD me. On the other hand, having that in place made it REALLY fun to taunt those script kiddies.
Windows 98: Fixed most of the problems with Windows 95, and was great as long as you turned off that crap on the desktop.
Windows Me: Yes, I actually had this. This was before I started buying/building my own machines. Wow... So bad... So so bad...
Windows XP: Finally, something that worked! Well, after a service pack or two... But hey, it was a lot more stable than WinMe!
Windows Vista: I know... I know... But I got a REALLY good deal on a machine about six months before Windows 7 came out. It came with a free upgrade, so I just didn't actually commit to the new machine (Stuck with my old XP box) until I got the upgrade.
Windows 7: Better than XP... Best one yet. No complaints... Well, not many... I mean, my machine doesn't always post, and sometimes it locks up hard or bluescreens, but I'm pretty sure it's a hardware issue.
Windows 8: Everyone keeps telling me, "Just download ____ to fix the start menu and it's great!" But if you have to get third-party add-ons just to make it usable, doesn't that mean it's a failure? Thanks, but I'll wait for Windows 9 and hope it sucks less than 8... And I wish they'd hurry up, because I'm in the mood to buy a new computer.
|
|
|
|
|
Windows 8 is a huge change on how things are done, and if you don't change to the new way of doing things then you will have a uphill battle to do all the tricks you are used to.
All because you did not adapt to the new way of doing something does not make the concept a failure.
Windows Metro is the code basis for both Xbox One and Windows Phone, the future of the company is in these two technologies, Windows 8 is the first Desktop OS to integrate with that code basis. The coding abilities are the strong point in 8 and is what should shine.
Windows OneCore will be more of that dream to have one code structure across all devices, sadly the desktop and the old way of doing things does not fit in this new idea.
|
|
|
|
|
ColborneGreg wrote: Windows 8 is a huge change on how things are done
And it's clearly a change that desktop uses don't want. Looks great for tablets, but I don't want tiles on my desktop.
Now if the innards are shared, that's just fine. Common code on that level is usually a good thing, and should make it more stable and compatible. But their window manager, to speak of it in *NIX terms, leaves something to be desired.
Tiles are for tablets, windows are for desktops. Putting a few live tiles into the start menu, which they seem to be doing in the next version, is cool. I'm good with that. But making me switch my ENTIRE screen to a bunch of tiles just to launch an application? Epic fail.
I know you're going to talk about how important the inner parts are... But when I get home from work, all I want to do is check my e-mail, browse the web, and play games... Sometimes I'll pop into LibreOffice or mess around with other things. I don't care about the innards. They need to JUST WORK. I care about the GUI, and tiles are pointless when I have a mouse and keyboard.
And on that note, when I'm AT work, I don't want tiles there either. Fortunately, my company just recently upgraded to Win7, so I don't see them upgrading again anytime soon. Hell, I'm stuck developing on VS2010... No async/await for me 
So... Windows 8... Seen it. Not buying it.
|
|
|
|
|
I get them from the majority of computer people that have a history with computers and are engrained in a way of doing things as you pointed out, which is fine, normal, and because of that changing to Windows 8 is not good; but for anyone that is not a computer geek, they most of the time are taken back and have bad things to say about Windows 8, but every single one of them that I have coached has come to realise why things are done the way their are done in Windows 8, and to get rid of Metro would be to go backwards for them.
|
|
|
|
|
That quick autocomplete box at the bottom of the Start Menu was an AMAZING addition to Win7... No more searching through that All Programs tree to find some obscure thing buried among five hundred other useless applications. Huge step forward.
Being able to hit the start key, type a few letters, and hit enter to bring up an accessory like Calculator or Regedit or Notepad, without even touching the mouse or taking my eyes off what I'm doing... Huge step forward.
Opening up a full-screen mess of live tiles every time I want to launch an application that I don't use often enough to put on my taskbar? Huge step backward.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/windows-9-release-date-beta-preview-start-menu-screenshots[^] <-- That looks like a good start menu. That's what I'm waiting for.
|
|
|
|
|
In windows 8 - you just start typing from the start menu.
You can still press the start key and just start typing.
There is also a swipe bar on the right; move your mouse to the top right or bottom right, then move your mouse up or down to activate the Charms bar.
You can click the search charm to locate a program you want.
|
|
|
|
|
You missed the part about the entire screen switching to a mess of tiles while I'm trying to read something.
|
|
|
|
|
That's why I mentioned the charms bar which does not take away from your experience.
The search result will show on the flyout pane on the right, so you can use that application with ease.
|
|
|
|
|
So, still something that requires me to divert my attention away from whatever I'm doing...
Why does Microsoft suddenly hate keyboards?
(Keyboard + Muscle Memory) > (Mouse + Hunting for crap on a charms bar)
|
|
|
|
|
That full screen start menu is sometimes annoying
|
|
|
|
|
That full screen start menu is sometimes annoying
FTFY
"If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough."
Alan Kay.
|
|
|
|
|
The only time it is annoying is when I want it to show in the portion of the screen absent of a metro app instead of taking total control of the screen.
|
|
|
|
|
So... your muscle memory can't remember winKey + C?
there's a keyboard shortcut for everything, except shutting down the device, that's still a pain 
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm not sure, but doesn't that go back to the start page? (I have win 7 at work, so I can't try it)
|
|
|
|
|
That has the same result in every version of windows.
Whatever app has the focus Alt-F4 will close.
If the desktop has focus or no apps are running pressing alt-f4 will shut the machine down
|
|
|
|
|
failure1:
to "type from the start menu" you have to make it active first, hiding your application you have been working with. In W7 search, I don't have to switch to desktop, and can see the last active window I have been working with, helping to remind me what I was searching for. (and yes, that's sometimes quite helpful, when I don't exactly remember how the file is named that I'm looking for.
failure 2:
having a "swipe bar" on the desktop. Or even a tablet, for that matter. There's more than aenough screen estate to provide actionable UI elements for relevant system functions, e. g. on the task bar. There's no need nor reason to add a popup sidebar that just gets in the way more often than not.
failure 3:
Having to move your mouse to a far corner just to show a relevant function takes a lot more effort and energy than simply pressing the windows button to open the start menu.
failure 4:
the default search in W8 is searching for apps. That's about the least useful kind of search I can think of: when I search for something on my local system, it is a data file, 99% of the time!
failure 5:
W8 search will not find most data files, even if you tell it to go looking for something different than apps. W7 search finds files, applications, settings, and even emails, no problem! I've seen lots of complaints about that, and little to no solution offered besides switching to another search tool, or file search in Windows Explorer.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
|
|
|
|
|
Failure 1 can be avoided by using the charms bar and then the search shows on top of the desktop
Short-cut Windows-Logo-Key + S
Failure 2 there is no chrome is important, otherwise the Metro UI would not be able to have its own look on Windows Phone, its own look on Xbox and still function well on the Desktop while only being one code set.
Failure 3 Learn the short cuts that start with the Windows-Logo-Key
Failure 4 update to windows 8.1 that searches everywhere
Failure 5 Update to Windows 8.1
|
|
|
|
|
Failure 1
I was responding to:
ColborneGreg wrote: In windows 8 - you just start typing from the start menu.
Your argument makes that point irrelevant.
Failure 2
I couldn't care less about Phone or XBox. All we're discussing is desktop, which is a huge failure.
ColborneGreg wrote: still function well on the Desktop
Define "well" - it's much worse than W7.
Failure 3
ColborneGreg wrote: Learn the short cuts
Sure, I will. But why is it considered an improvement that I need to learn more shortcuts? All this proves is that there is no benefit at all to the Charms Bar. It shouldn't be on the desktop at all! At least not on a system with keyboard and without touch interface.
Failure 4
According to MS, the default is still to search only for apps in W8.1: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/search-apps-files-settings[^] Do you have better info than that?
Failure 5
I won't switch to 8.1 for my own reasons that I will not discuss here. Whether it solves the issue I can't say - a quick search turned up no explicit information, although some passages I've seen imply that it's at least possible to search for images and other media files. For the sake of argument, lets assume this is fixed.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
|
|
|
|
|
No it proves how you want something that's it.
My point is that whatever way to search it is provides an easy in your face method (not a desktop style which confuses everyone) that is easy to use.
The market is not buying desktops, they are buying touch devices, they are buying Xboxes.
That link says "By default, the Search charm searches the apps, files, and settings on your PC and OneDrive, plus the web"
PLUS THE WEB
Well when you hack an operating system it makes it impossible to update the OS to Windows 8.1.
I find people that have never paid for Windows dislike Windows 8.
Nedella just posted this all over the campus in a very basic poster
"It would be to easy to do what we have always done, but the world does not need another operating system"
Which is a direct stab at the rumors of Windows 9 - that it doesn't exist.
It would be to easy to do what we have always done - is a stab that any desktop design is something to drop.
Ballmer before releasing Windows 8.1 stated that from now on we are on consecutive roll outs in both Visual Studio and Windows
Windows 8 is the progression to remove the desktop as the primary focus of the operating system while at the beginning standing on the history of the desktop, to not only keep the current customer base happy but to push out of that bubble and tap into the non microsofts of the world
|
|
|
|
|
Nobody is arguing how well it works (or not) on other devices. It's a failure for desktop. That's all I'm saying.
As for search, searching the web by default is also a big nono for me. It just means that not only will my actual online searches be registered and accumulated by who-knows-whom, now even my offline searches will!? No, thanks. MS has made it very clear that a whole lot of data will be routed through their servers, and the NSA has made very clear that these servers aren't safe from spying eyes, even if they're located outside the US! As a consequence, several governments have already moved away from Windows! UK is not using it, China neither, and the german government has strongly warned against it although it hasn't officially banned its use just yet.
As for moving away the focus from the desktop, I'm sure this will happen, but it's way too early for that. It's certainly wise for MS to head in that direction, but they shouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. For now, it's the desktop users who provide the vast majority of products for the Windows ecosystem, and MS simply can't afford to alienate their most important support base: the developers.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
|
|
|
|
|
Listening to developers is how Windows lost the game to Android.
Listening to paranoid people is how Microsoft security becomes victim to other problems.
Microsoft is dedicated to provide systems that do not store information about you, while also having a dedicated team to removing the exploits of the NSA.
The Chinese government banned Windows after Microsoft refused to give them the source code.
Other Countries deny the use of American products as it provides money to the American economy.
As for the Windows 8 being a failure for Desktop I agreed when I first started and agreed with it as long as I didn't give windows 8 a chance, but simply put the productivity of Windows 8 on the desktop is tenfold over any other system once the user understands how to take advantage of that system.
|
|
|
|
|
ColborneGreg wrote: Listening to developers
I'm not talking about listening to developers, but about providing a sensible production environment to developers.
ColborneGreg wrote: is how Windows lost the game to Android.
Wow. Just wow. Please stick to the facts.
ColborneGreg wrote: Microsoft is dedicated to provide systems that do not store information about you, while also having a dedicated team to removing the exploits of the NSA.
Thats their official statement, and I'm even inclined to believe them, but it won't help if the US court decides against them. The US court has shown remarkably consistency in its utterly insane decisions regarding privacy and software in general, so I wouldn't be holding my breath on that one.
ColborneGreg wrote: Other Countries deny the use of American products as it provides money to the American economy.
BS. UK and Germany are both allies, and keen on strong economical relations. If anything, they've been using Windows before in spite of the cost. In China, MS sells Windows for next to nothing, just to ensure there's a solid user base for Office and other products which are the real cash cows.
ColborneGreg wrote: the productivity of Windows 8 on the desktop is tenfold over any other system
BS. The vast majority of developers oppose that statement, and even official MS sources admitted to most of the failures I'v pointed out before. Just look at the W9 preview.
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
|
|
|
|
|
General 
News 
Suggestion 
Question 
Bug 
Answer 
Joke 
Praise 
Rant 
Admin 
Submit an article or tip
