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Hi
We have here intensive (think LOUD) discussions about how many programmers we need for our project.
I would be happy if you could give me an estimate about how many you think we need to see if I'm completely wrong or not.
Description/List:
- It is a product, not a customer specific app only for one customer.
- We must develop an test it, then install and support it on the customers sites.
- We are faced with our old sins... err, I mean versions (Patching old versions)
- There are components running on the customers server and on their clients (10...1000).
- For all customers an upgrade path must exist for the data in database and for server/client apps.
Components:
- Web application with various pages.
- Webservice with many webservices also for third party apps (we must negotiate these with them)
- A database for central data handling (SQL Server, ANY version > 7, many tables, storedPros)
- In total about 46 Visual Studio projects which must be built and with Installshield (four more projects) converted to a setup
- It supports four user languages.
- It must be tested on OS >= WinXP and different IE versions (you know the pitfalls)
- About 399'000 lines of code in 1440 files (without comments and autogenerated code, counted with LOCCounter from Microsoft with standard settings).
- Technologies: Mainly C# with usual XML/SOAP thingies, Javascript, C++ and some (excuse me) VB6.
What do you think who many employees does such a project need?
It would be nice hearing an estimate from you.
Thanks
modified on Friday, February 11, 2011 4:15 AM
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My guess?
One! Me, at the moment.
Your guess?
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It will also depend on the schedule and budget for the project. You also need to consider those sort of things.
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Hi
I’m a junior programmer, I’ve had over three years of experience working with .NET Framework (C#, VB, little Silverlight). My question is where I can find a programmer mentor? Because in my actual job they don’t do that actually they think is a waste of time.
I really like this website and I will like to start collaborating with articles and more but since I’m a junior programmer and the articles are read by many people I’m not sure how to do it the right way
Where I can find a Mentor or Work with someone for free in order to learn more?
How can I start collaborating with this website, my goal will be someday become a MVP Code Project professional
Regards
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Code Project can be a good mentor for you. There are great articles to learn from. Maybe you can contribute to be an MVP one day.
All the best.
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Have you tried joining the open source community?
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
— Hunter S. Thompson
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I've been developing professionally for about 3 years now. My primary job is all C#. I didn't study Computer Science at my university, so therefore I don't have a lot of the basic classes. I took some lower level CS classes, including assembly language, but no data structures. Would it be worth it to try to take a data structures course? Would it be worth it to try to learn it from a textbook on my own? At the moment my only choice is trying to take it online as the closest university is about an hour away. I feel like if I was asked questions about data structures in an interview I wouldn't have good answers. Would textbook knowledge be sufficient?
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Text book knowledge is never sufficient buddy at least when you are working in the industry. Always think from the practical perspective. Data Structure is very important to understand when you are writing the code professionally. Because when it comes to professional IT developer you have to consider performance, structure of the programmer, ease of developement, impact of variuos options available etc. Only theorotical knowledge is never going to help you in this scenario.
Hope this helps.
All the best.
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Take it only if it is related to your tasks as a developer. As Pravin said, consider the practicality before taking the lesson.
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Hi,
I've been working on a bachelors program for Comp Sci. I'm taking a few semesters off as I've just had a new addition to the family and was considering working on a microsoft certification during this time. (specifically the MCTS .NET 3.5/ASP.Net certification).
I don't develop professionally though I eventually hope to. In a recent conversation with a friend of mine who is a developer whose opinion I respect, he told me that I shouldn't waste time bothering with a certification and that many knowledgeable developers view the certs as simply indicating someone who can take a test.
I know ultimately that experience counts the most when you're getting hired and I would hope to build a portfolio of projects on the side that I could demonstrate aptitude with....however at the resume level is a degree in Computer Science or a Certification in a specific platform worth more?
I guess more specifically I'm curious if this community feels the MCTS developer certifications are worth the effort?
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Certifications can be viewed as simply an indication that you can take a test, but they also show that you are able and willing to make an effort to educate yourself, which is obvously a positive asset when looking for a job. However, most employers (especially in these recession hit times) view experience as the most important asset when hiring. If you have time to spend on personal projects then by all means go for a certification, but try and create your portfolio at the same time. Since you are looking into ASP.NET a good sample of your skills could be demonstrated by any web site you may create.
I must get a clever new signature for 2011.
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Just as an adjunct comment to what Richard says...
I agree that certifications are really more of an indication about a personal commitment to gain knowledge. They are after all not really 'certified' as a valid educational pathway in most areas like an official degree is, but even those you need to watch out for. Make sure you use an accredited school and not one of those graduate mills that you see advertise on TV.
However, JUST Getting a degree may not be a great option either. As many people find out, a degree is no substitute for experience, and there is lies the catch-22. You usually cannot get experience without a degree, and getting a degree without experience shows that you can read and pass a test but... well you get it from here.
Personally, I went the way of bruit force... Self employed. I started my own consulting business, ran classes on my own, did jobs that I knew I could do and studied like heck to do the rest. Interestingly enough even without having a degree of any kind until recently (just so I could teach in fact) I had found myself gainfully employed for a 10 year period of time at Intel and a few other companies that typically do not take non degreed people at all. Lucky? Maybe.
I DO HIGHLY recommend that you build your portfolio that hot only highlights every educational opportunity that you take but also highlights WORK that you have done. Just like artists carry them around, so should IT people. Examples of systems designed, problems solved, code written, papers published, etc... I also highly recommend that you keep a history (with proof) of any and all training classes and industry events that you take/attend here just to show that you are a non-stop learner. Remember, just because you get a degree does not mean you can at any time say 'I am done, know what I need and now its time to just work'... BS... Learning is a constant process that never stops. You should show that you understand and live by that constantly.
Your portfolio should show that.
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Adding to what both of the other replies have....
I do have alot of certifications. I started looking at them after I had a MS but wanted to continue my learning. A pHd was not really an option for me, so certifications were the direction I went it.
Certifications will NOT get you a job. I have talked to many people about this. As others have pointed out, certifications show that you can take exams and that you know how Microsoft wants the answers. For example, on database questions with a cross reference table, many/most DBA types will just put in the indexes of the other tables. Microsoft expects you to have a separate index for the cross reference. Neither is "wrong" but you need to know how to answer to pass the exams. Other people point to the "paper MCSE" that exist. These are people that have never managed a server or network but took all the exams to give them the cert. Children at the age of 10 have gotten this cert. This really makes people uncertain if you are just good at taking tests, if you cheated, or if you really know your stuff.
Could certifications move your resume to the short pile when job hunting? yes. Some people like the fact that you are working on this stuff and learning it on your own or with your company and are willing to keep you around for a formal interview.
Could certifications get a promotion? yes. I know that my certifications have helped me to get promotions in the past. I am constantly learning new things and using them in my day-to-day responsibilities.
Overally, you need to practice the topics that you are going to test on. You need to know how to really do the things they are asking about, such as localization, security, etc. Not everyone knows those topics that well. As it was suggested, build up a portfolio of things. It could be articles on CP, a website for your softball team, or some little software project that you have a passion about.
One of the things told to me while I was going for my BS. There are some things that you are going to learn that you will be using every day and those things you will memorize. The school will then show you how to find out or research the rest of the information needed. Knowing how to look things up and how to complete things is something that a formal education shows you. And it shows potential employers as well. Some people will say that even a BS is out-dated in the age of the internet and that people can do just fine without it. But without something, projects that you have done, a degree, certifications, then there is no way for me to determine if you are the kind of person who will stick around or just decide the work is too hard and will leave.
I vote for a portfolio with certifications on the side. The certifications will help you to look at other parts of the topics and do more than just what a project will do.
Disclaimer: I have taught college before as well as was used by the Microsoft learning group as a subject matter expert. So I have seen both sides of this.
Steve Maier
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Hi everyone! I work as a data management engineer but as the company is small I get to develop applications for internal use, for which I use VB .NET (don't flame me for it, I already know many of you despise VB .NET). I consider myself to be a very decent programmer in VB .NET. I also have undertaken some for-learning-only projects in ASP .NET recently. I used to have a decent command of Java, but haven't coded in Java for the last 8 years.
So, I want to learn a new language, I was thinking C++ or C#. I don't have a job requirement to do so, nor do I intend to look for a new job. I am interested in developing for mobile devices some time soon.
What do you think? C++? C#? Refresh and update Java? Or...
TIA for your input. I know my question is very subjective, but I would like to hear your answers if possible.
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Since you already have a background in .NET, I strongly recommend learning C#, after which you may want to focus on picking up WPF and WCF. They will serve you well if you choose to follow the path leading to a general purpose .NET developer.
/ravi
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I agree with Ravi that C# should be something that you should learn as well. That is not coming from not liking VB.NET but from both a learning experience and also to follow with getting into mobile devices. You can use C# for the older Windows Mobile 6.5 and lower, C# and Silverlight support the Windows Phone 7, and C# is closer to Java than VB.NET is and that is what is used on Android devices. And actually with monoDroid you can actually code with C# for the Android and there is MonoTouch where you can do C# for the iPhone instead of Objective-C. So with C# you get the possibility of alot of mobile devices.
Steve Maier
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If you are learning a language for use rapidly, I'd probably go with C#, as the others recommend.
However, for the long term, C/C++ is a classic, so I'd recommend you learn it as background and reference information. Since the syntax of so many other languages was derived from C/C++, it will give you a real good basis for future understanding.
Of course, if you just want to learn for fun with no pressure, pick something that will warp your brain and make you think differently, like Forth, Prolog or F#. They may be somewhat esoteric and not immediately useful to you, but learning new ways of looking at things will forever enrich your career.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E.
Comport Computing
Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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It depends on what you want to do but here's what I would say. You'll pick up C# the quickest since it is identicaly to VB.NET except for syntax. C++ will take longer to learn but has less overlap in terms of it's applications than C# has with VB.NET. Plus if you learn it you'll also basically know C# since the only piece you're missing is a knowledge of c syntax (assuming you don't remember that from java). I also started with VB then learned C/C++ and C# is no problem for me.
As far as mobile devices go I don't think C# would be very usefull because windows phones are probably the only ones using it and they only have a miniscule part of the market. From what I've read Apple uses Objective C and C++. Android and blackberry use Java and C++. So I would pick one of the those 3 languages.
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Why not study the Code complete 2, algorithm introduce.
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If performance is very important, then C++. If you want something that is easier to use, C#.
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Depends on what you want to do.
If your focus at some point is going to be somethign low level like embedded development then managed code is out and start looking at stuff like C/C++, machine code, FPGA stuff, etc... If you are looking at application side stuff then look at what is popular in that industry...
Keep in mind that no matter what you do on the web side, I don't care if you settle on VB.Net or C#, you are also going to HAVE to learn Java just because even in those environments you are always going to run into to somethign you will need client side Java for, or find somethign that auto-generates the Java stuff for you and you need to understand it. Java is do darn close to C# (and thus to VB also - although many will not admit it) that it is worthless to NOT know the three together.
If you are just looking for some interesting experience that you may be able to leverage at some point in the future then start looking around at some of the interesting languages that are being invented or created now... Here is a cool thing to consider.
Try building your own!  I always wanted to try that...
Hmmmmmm
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I need another project!
Where does a civilian and non FBI /CIA electronics geek learn about ECM?
Or does monitoring and possibly interfering with unfriendly internet traffic (SPAM etc.) counts as ECM?
Vaclav
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I hate to complain about my job considering how much unemployment there is but, is my situation normal as a first programming job?
I was hired into a technology consulting division of a consulting company. I was led to believe that I would be programming and that is my official title. The first month I went through a 1 month training program with a large number of other new hires to learn SAP/ABAP. I did do alot of programming in the training program. However, the project I was put on after the training program involves zero programming. 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program.
I was wondering is this what your first programming job was like or is my company an abberation?
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Anonymous12345678 wrote: 100% of my job is writing documentation for old programs written by other people. And none the other new hires I've met are programming either. In fact only a small percentage of the people I've met at the company actually seem to program.
Actually this seems to be software consultant job. In my company these people called as software consultant.
They provide requirement to programmers, anlyse the client requirement, make doumentation of the project.
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