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Hear hear.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions.
There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
{o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! )
|)””’) http://pihole.org/
-”-”-
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Knowing that C# wouldn't be available for twenty more years would be very frustrating.
Though I suppose I could kick-start it... 
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I also love working with C# so much better than C, so I must agree with you there.
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In the beginning there were punchcards.
When Assembler was born, people happily learned it.
Later on they were happy to change to C and C++.
After C++ there was C#. Again, people were happy to change.
After C# there'll be ... well, I don't know, but as history tell us, it will probably be better than C#.
This statement is false.
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Well, yes, we can expect better things in the future; but to actually know the details decades in advance would be frustrating.
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If I could go back I wouldn't do the computing straight away. I seem to have the right basic talents and abilities (and all that childhood programming practice). I'd have been a singer (my other main talent) and then done the degree/got into computing later in life. I have met several people who have done a similar thing (after being in the Army, for example) and they seem do do just fine...
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kirsty pollock wrote: I'd have been a singer (my other main talent) and then done the degree/got into computing later in life.
There was a fellow that worked with me a few years ago that was a good guitarist and a very good EE/SW guy. He made friends with a singer in a famous 70's rock band (before the resurgence of 70's music). One day the singer called him and asked him to tour as a guitarist and the tech manager. He did that for about 6 months and then came back to work with us. Before he came back, I was able to see he play with the band when they had a local concert (it's kind of fun to say "I'm with the band").
When he came back he said it was because he got sick of the road and the way band members treated their support crew (probably more of the latter). But not long after that he got a job at a company that focuses on HW/SW for music, movies and home theater.
So it's possible to have it both ways. Apparently touring with a famous band as a guitarist is a good resume builder for some entertainment oriented HW/SW companies.
Keith Rule
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...I could have done it too but my parents coerced me into engineering when I was making my college choices. Once you've graduated and got a job/mortgage/wife/family etc. it's very difficult, if not impossible, to stop working and re-train for some other profession.
It's not that I dislike the job - I actually love what I do - but I can't help feeling that (in the UK at least) engineers are looked upon as geeky second class citizens, a necessary evil if you like and the subject of many nerdy jokes. In fact, I often avoid getting into discussions with people about my chosen profession because as soon as I say 'Software Engineer' their eyes glaze over and they change the subject as soon as possible. If I'm lucky they'll refrain from some joke about 'shift registers' or 'The IT Crowd' on Channel 4. I wouldn't mind but just about everybody in the developed world (and quite a few people in developing countries too) use electronics developed by us poorly paid second class geeks, so where's the pay/respect?
The only way to really get paid in this profession is to go it alone as a freelancer, but it takes a lot of different qualities to take that plunge, many of which most people don't have.
OK, rant over. Back to work...
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Man, I can't stand the IT crowd. hahaha.
And, I swear it's not as bad as you think it is. Everytime I tell people I'm an electrical engineer, I kind of wince (presumably expecting a blow to the head or something, dunno) but really, it's not too bad - they usually ask me how I got into it etc.
SwITCh?!
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"The only way to really get paid in this profession is to go it alone as a freelancer, but it takes a lot of different qualities to take that plunge, many of which most people don't have."
Yes, like being a completely useless, shameless gouger  Ok, not all freelancers, but some 
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I think about this being that I work with Doctors that make 10 times my salary or more...
John
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So much for morality.
Making your living off of sick people?
Exploiting the dire misfortunes of others?*
Taking part in impoverishing people - entire families?
That's the crowd you want to hang with ???
* As is oft said by MD's: "We bury our mistakes" - but still send the bill.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"How do you find out if you're unwanted if everyone you try to ask tells you to stop bothering them and just go away?" - Balboos HaGadol
"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment?" - Balboos HaGadol
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Well, that's one way to put it.
Actually, I sort of think of it as making a living helping sick people.
Maybe I look at it slightly differently here in the UK. We have a publicly funded National Health Service, and the vast majority of people would agree that it's a good system (although everyone would agree that it has its problems) and as far as know it's never been responsible for impoverishing entire families - in fact it's supposed to provide largely free health care to everybody, no matter what their financial situation.
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... heads up! I might still be a bit too naive for the harsh *real* world since I am currently doing my master studies (aeronautical engineering, focus on control systems) but I feel quite a bit proud of what I do. Even if my on the job experience is somewhat limited at this point.
My mother is a doctor in fact, but still I feel that I am doing exactly the thing I am most capable of. I must agree that the public reputation of engineers is not comparable to doctors but still: people do need us even if they might not realise it.
To me, it seems as if I should simply *assume* respect for the engineer's work quietly. So whenever our beloved politicians do their "Europe's only natural resources is it's brains" speech I can't resist remembering our foreign trade balance that is made up by *our* machines and technology - and everything is fine.
As long as my own family respects me few things may really touch me. At least this is my attitude.
enough ranting for today. 
Best regards from Germany
Arne
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Hi Arne,
You raise some good points, but it has to be said that engineers have a much better reputation in your country. Germany is world-renowned for the quality of its engineering (rightly or wrongly, but that's another subject) and so I guess that engineers are a source of national pride. I just find it disappointing that it's not the case in the UK too.
Regards,
Chris Chambers.
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I can understand how u feel, but we have to understand every one can not be a doctor. Software Engineer is every where in today's life even in doctor profession to, even i have made software for doctor. When people start asking me when good for your profession i give them numbers of use of Software Engineer. I really proud what i do. And Every Software Engineer should also be.
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You're quite right, and I am very proud of what we do. It's just a shame that so few other non-engineers are not as proud of what we do, despite their total reliance on our entire industry.
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Having been told at the age of 30 that I did not have tha aptitude to be a programmer (perhaps I could not read punch cards?), and not having taken up programming until age about 40, if I knew what I know now I would have taken it up at age 5 - had computers (on the desktop) been available. I am now nearly 61 by the way.
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Way to not let people tell you what you can't do. Congrats, and keep it up!
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions.
There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
{o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! )
|)””’) http://pihole.org/
-”-”-
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I remember punch cards also, but with a degree in engineering I have no idea why I am still programming.
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... If I was born in an other century, I could not imagine what else i should do.
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I've often thought that question myself! I think it would have to be some sort of mechanical computer, like the Babbage machines or something.
Either that or I would invent this crazy hypothetical data model in my head with no physical means to realize it, lol.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions.
There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't.
{o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! )
|)””’) http://pihole.org/
-”-”-
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Yup. Don't have the physical muscle to dig ditches or do hard labor or? Logical thinking just isn't rewarded anywhere else. In fact, it's more often a handicap. See: Logical Thinking is not on the TEST[^]
In fact, now that I think about it, aside from the actual coding, logical thinking isn't much rewarded at work either 
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Owen37 wrote: Logical thinking just isn't rewarded anywhere else
You can always become a mathematician, spend the rest of your life writing scary symbols on your own blackboard and have a spiritual reward. It makes sense, I know such people and they seem to feel happy with their passion.
Greetings - Gajatko
Portable.NET is part of DotGNU, a project to build a complete Free Software replacement for .NET - a system that truly belongs to the developers.
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