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Super Lloyd wrote: Developers are well known (with some nervousness in some circle) as people who love to refactor old code (I do love to axe old stuff meself), but it's always obtuse management who come with "don't change what is working!
Why replace something that's not broken? That's a risk, often without benefits, just new bugs. Meaning more costs, not income.
Super Lloyd wrote: Btw, can you fix bug 634523776 in that code?
That's what pays the bills, innit?
Super Lloyd wrote: "why did you change all of that? can't you just add a couple more if statements in this 3,000 lines long method?"
..I don't do methods that don't fit on A4 if printed.
Long methods make stuff complicated. Obfuscating makes it harder to maintain and debug, adding more costs and risks. It needs to be simple enough so that anyone new on the team can understand it, even if they had a previous career in management 
Bastard Programmer from Hell 
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Eddy Vluggen wrote: Super Lloyd wrote: Developers are well known (with some nervousness in some circle) as people who love to refactor old code (I do love to axe old stuff meself), but it's always obtuse management who come with "don't change what is working!
Why replace something that's not broken? That's a risk, often without benefits, just new bugs. Meaning more costs, not income.
Super Lloyd wrote: Btw, can you fix bug 634523776 in that code?
That's what pays the bills, innit?
See... that's the thing, they ask us to change it, so it was broken!
I don't care about old ugly code.... until I am asked to make a "quick simple fix"!
After a few of those, when it starts to make sense, I am like f*** it, I am going to make my life easier, simplify all that fugly pasta code!
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Super Lloyd wrote: See... that's the thing, they ask us to change it, so it was broken!
Ehr.. no. A change doesn't mean it is broken. A change is an improvement, if it was broken it'd be called a bug fix and not a change.
Super Lloyd wrote: I don't care about old ugly code.... until I am asked to make a "quick simple fix"!
After a few of those, when it starts to make sense, I am like f*** it, I am going to make my life easier, simplify all that fugly pasta code!
You could be held liable here. Your ideas of aestethics does not weigh up to the risc you introduce.
You not hired to make beautifull code, simple as that. And if managers complain it takes long to change it, point out the technical debt; but go rogue, and I have your changes reverted.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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See here... I can see we disagree.
You did prove that not everybody share my view which, in hindsight, I perfectly knew that already. In fact I mention those such as you, it's the nervous crowd.
if you must know your argument is lost on me (and on my previous bosses too) if they want me to continuously modify something by only adding code, and never remove... well they should not have hired me.
In fact you'll be please to know I have been fired a few times for cause related to that. Since never trimming down code that is an obstacle to my well being is.. almost physically painful to me and, well, I disagreed with others too.
In fact, during my job interviews now, so that I find compatible employers, when they ask my strong point, I tell them I am good at deleting code (and keeping the functionality).
And before you say that perhaps I should "learn" (to live with mess) I tried.. but this is too at odd with the desire to learn and improve that I also cultivate at work.
And since you mention that so called argument that "beautiful code is subjective", doing the same thing with half the number of classes, method and line of code is 100% objective so I am not convinced by your so called subjective superiority.
modified 7-May-21 21:59pm.
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Is it science fiction or science fact that space aliens have already invaded Earth? I say "Fact" - Cheerio
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PaltryProgrammer wrote: I say "Fact"
"They" Told You To Say That !
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Disguised as politicians. Mars Attacks!
It was only in wine that he laid down no limit for himself, but he did not allow himself to be confused by it.
― Confucian Analects: Rules of Confucius about his food
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The only aliens to come to Earth would be from the Galactic Communication Commission - they want us to stop polluting interstellar space with our broadcast TV programs.
I sympathise - how many reruns of "I Love Lucy" can they be expected to tolerate? 
Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
-- 6079 Smith W.
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Somehow I don't think "I Love Lucy" is our worst offense.
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Fiction. As are "space aliens".
Also, nothing exceeds the speed of light. Now take a look at the distance. Yeah, not happening.
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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Dial Up Sound[^]
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
The metaphorical solid rear-end expulsions have impacted the metaphorical motorized bladed rotating air movement mechanism.
Do questions with multiple question marks annoy you???
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Listened to it twice.
Enjoyed it.
Then thought????
"Rock journalism is people who can't write interviewing people who can't talk for people who can't read." Frank Zappa 1980
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I'm such an old timer that my telephone lines didn't even have sound.
| Ravings en masse^ |
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| "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein | | "If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010 |
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Hehehe, thanks for the new ringtone 
Bastard Programmer from Hell
"If you just follow the bacon Eddy, wherever it leads you, then you won't have to think about politics." -- Some Bell.
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I am hoping for proper science fiction films in particular portrayals of the David Wingrove series "Chung Kuo" and of William Goldman's "Forever War" hopefully by directors of the likes of Ridley Scott or Paul Verhoeven certainly not the likes of George Lucas. - Cheerio
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There's hardly been a decent Sci-Fi film since the movies of the 50's and 60's (War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, This Island Earth, When World's Collide, Forbidden Planet, etc). All the recent ones are more concerned with people's feeling and emotional interaction with each other than having a good, solid story. Even the more science-fictiony movies, with space aliens taking over the planet or whatever are all about people's reactions to it rather than anything else. I'm not sure what I am trying to say here except I have read a lot of Sci-Fi books and most of them haven't been made into decent films - or even TV series.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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I dunno - I think you can have a good SF story and deal with the emotions of it - Arrival I think hit both of these. (and The Day the Earth Stood Still to add to your oldie list)
I'm blanking right now on stuff I enjoyed lately - The Martian, and of course The Expanse. But beyond that, I can't think of anything.
And here we are in a new golden age of SF books...
TTFN - Kent
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The Expanse has been a delight. It's a relief, too, that they've mostly stuck to the story lines in the books.
Waiting anxiously for the next installments to show up
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SciFi is such a broad category, really.
If one is going to discuss SciFi films, etc. they really need to break it down to smaller components.
Aliens, exploration, horror, thriller, etc.
Currently I am digging Prometheus, not Alien: Covenant. Really wish R. Scott would do some movies on the Enigneers, etc. That would be great.
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What do you think of "Blade Runner"? (by the way Google AI automatically added "Runner" for me) It is one of my favorite films. The music is excellent. The mood is perfect. Sean Young is perfectly cast. The director's cut though was a disappointment. The original is superior. How can you possibly not have mentioned "2001: A Space Odyssey"? Thank you for mentioning "Forbidden Planet" I also am quite fond of it and am hoping for a modern telling of it. The unseen being still frightens me. Maybe its the accompanying music. What about "Robocop" another fine film IMHO. The first installment of "Star Ship Troopers" wasn't too bad. Older films I find to be a bit too slow moving for my tastes. There are always boring scenes that do not hold my attention. "Contact" wasn't too bad either. A good ending. "Close Encounters" The modern list goes on. You are begging the question "What makes a good science fiction story?" Entertaining but that is a matter of personal preference. Good solid science of course w/ reasonable extrapolations. Which is why I could not tolerate "Interstellar". No logical inconsistencies. "Gravity" was a thrill to watch most of the time. How she knew to operate a Chinse vessel I am not too happy about. I also do not care how the characters "feel". When I watch Star Trek episodes I am interested in how they solve their problems hopefully in the most logical manner. Kind Regards - Cheerio
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I dunno: The Abyss, 2001, 12 Monkeys, Blade Runner, The Martian, Ex Machina, Aliens / Alien, The Matrix, ...
All good films, all SF.
Yes, there is a lot of trash out there, yes generally sequels are gawd awful cash-ins. But there are some real gems.
And some stinkers that should have been good but were ruined: Enders Game springs to mind ...
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Yeah, I agree with all those - except 12 Monkeys was a bit too much of a Bruce Willis vehicle, but still OK.
Then there are Comedy Sci-Fi like Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Galaxy Quest, 5th Element and a few others.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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H2G2 edges very close to Enders Game territory ... for the same reasons: to fit all the detail which makes the original work just isn't practical for a movie (which is basically a short story with special effects).
"I have no idea what I did, but I'm taking full credit for it." - ThisOldTony
"Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a super power" - Random T-shirt
AntiTwitter: @DalekDave is now a follower!
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Yes, I must admit the original BBC TV series was the second best interpretation of H2G2, the BBC radio series being the best of course (amazing special effects - in my head anyway).
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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